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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Nope. To be clear, I'm saying that Carlos Zambrano, despite his rocky start, is a GOOD pitcher who has faced the heart of many lineups with much success. I'm also saying that John Grabow couldn't retire the heart of a Pony League lineup. You're ignoring how godawful Grabow has been and completely focusing on which hand he throws the ball with. I can see why you're taking Lou's side on this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH FUCK, now I get it! You are totally right Butch. Lou should have totally ignored the Philllies numbers against righties and lefties and put in a right hander who had been pitching poorly, because IN THE PAST that right hander had been good. He should have NEVER put in the lefty who was pitching poorly, even though he had been an effective reliever in the past, because, well, I'm not exactly sure, but Lou should have known. Therefore Lou, and not Grabow and the offense, cost us the game. That makes total sense.
And I'm certain it's what any good manager would have done.
You've completely turned me around. If you are in the mood for any handy tips, you could have won me over earlier if you had simply twisted my words around MORE than you did, and ignored my main points MORE than you did.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=99540:date=Jun 2 2010, 02:00 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jun 2 2010, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Nope. To be clear, I'm saying that Carlos Zambrano, despite his rocky start, is a GOOD pitcher who has faced the heart of many lineups with much success. I'm also saying that John Grabow couldn't retire the heart of a Pony League lineup. You're ignoring how godawful Grabow has been and completely focusing on which hand he throws the ball with. I can see why you're taking Lou's side on this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH FUCK, now I get it! You are totally right Butch. Lou should have totally ignored the Philllies numbers against righties and lefties and put in a right hander who had been pitching poorly, because IN THE PAST that right hander had been good. He should have NEVER put in the lefty who was pitching poorly, even though he had been an effective reliever in the past, because, well, I'm not exactly sure, but Lou should have known. Therefore Lou, and not Grabow and the offense, cost us the game. That makes total sense.
And I'm certain it's what any good manager would have done.
You've completely turned me around. If you are in the mood for any handy tips, you could have won me over earlier if you had simply twisted my words around MORE than you did, and ignored my main points MORE than you did.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now you're just coming off as an apologist. Look, I agree Lou is getting to much of the blame, although it wouldn't bother me if he were fired. But putting in Grabow at this point is indefensible. I don't give a fuck who you put in. Put in a righty. You can throw the numbers out the window when a guy has a 9.00 era.
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<!--quoteo(post=99544:date=Jun 2 2010, 01:07 PM:name=Dirk)-->QUOTE (Dirk @ Jun 2 2010, 01:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99540:date=Jun 2 2010, 02:00 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jun 2 2010, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Nope. To be clear, I'm saying that Carlos Zambrano, despite his rocky start, is a GOOD pitcher who has faced the heart of many lineups with much success. I'm also saying that John Grabow couldn't retire the heart of a Pony League lineup. You're ignoring how godawful Grabow has been and completely focusing on which hand he throws the ball with. I can see why you're taking Lou's side on this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH FUCK, now I get it! You are totally right Butch. Lou should have totally ignored the Philllies numbers against righties and lefties and put in a right hander who had been pitching poorly, because IN THE PAST that right hander had been good. He should have NEVER put in the lefty who was pitching poorly, even though he had been an effective reliever in the past, because, well, I'm not exactly sure, but Lou should have known. Therefore Lou, and not Grabow and the offense, cost us the game. That makes total sense.
And I'm certain it's what any good manager would have done.
You've completely turned me around. If you are in the mood for any handy tips, you could have won me over earlier if you had simply twisted my words around MORE than you did, and ignored my main points MORE than you did.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now you're just coming off as an apologist. Look, I agree Lou is getting to much of the blame, although it wouldn't bother me if he were fired. But putting in Grabow at this point is indefensible. I don't give a fuck who you put in. Put in a righty. You can throw the numbers out the window when a guy has a 9.00 era.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point is, everyone had a 9.00 ERA at that time.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=99540:date=Jun 2 2010, 01:00 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jun 2 2010, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Nope. To be clear, I'm saying that Carlos Zambrano, despite his rocky start, is a GOOD pitcher who has faced the heart of many lineups with much success. I'm also saying that John Grabow couldn't retire the heart of a Pony League lineup. You're ignoring how godawful Grabow has been and completely focusing on which hand he throws the ball with. I can see why you're taking Lou's side on this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH FUCK, now I get it! You are totally right Butch. Lou should have totally ignored the Philllies numbers against righties and lefties and put in a right hander who had been pitching poorly, because IN THE PAST that right hander had been good. He should have NEVER put in the lefty who was pitching poorly, even though he had been an effective reliever in the past, because, well, I'm not exactly sure, but Lou should have known. Therefore Lou, and not Grabow and the offense, cost us the game. That makes total sense.
And I'm certain it's what any good manager would have done.
You've completely turned me around. If you are in the mood for any handy tips, you could have won me over earlier if you had simply twisted my words around MORE than you did, and ignored my main points MORE than you did.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure there's anything better than when BT gets like this.
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<!--quoteo(post=99553:date=Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99540:date=Jun 2 2010, 01:00 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jun 2 2010, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Nope. To be clear, I'm saying that Carlos Zambrano, despite his rocky start, is a GOOD pitcher who has faced the heart of many lineups with much success. I'm also saying that John Grabow couldn't retire the heart of a Pony League lineup. You're ignoring how godawful Grabow has been and completely focusing on which hand he throws the ball with. I can see why you're taking Lou's side on this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH FUCK, now I get it! You are totally right Butch. Lou should have totally ignored the Philllies numbers against righties and lefties and put in a right hander who had been pitching poorly, because IN THE PAST that right hander had been good. He should have NEVER put in the lefty who was pitching poorly, even though he had been an effective reliever in the past, because, well, I'm not exactly sure, but Lou should have known. Therefore Lou, and not Grabow and the offense, cost us the game. That makes total sense.
And I'm certain it's what any good manager would have done.
You've completely turned me around. If you are in the mood for any handy tips, you could have won me over earlier if you had simply twisted my words around MORE than you did, and ignored my main points MORE than you did.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure there's anything better than when BT gets like this.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So are you guys purposely winding him up? Making him out to be a Cubs management apologist? Talking about how he's Hendry's butt buddy? Do you do this on purpose just to get his blood pressure up? I can't tell if you're fucking with him or if you really think he believes in everythign Hendry and Piniella do.
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<!--quoteo(post=99565:date=Jun 2 2010, 02:45 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 2 2010, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99553:date=Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99540:date=Jun 2 2010, 01:00 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jun 2 2010, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Nope. To be clear, I'm saying that Carlos Zambrano, despite his rocky start, is a GOOD pitcher who has faced the heart of many lineups with much success. I'm also saying that John Grabow couldn't retire the heart of a Pony League lineup. You're ignoring how godawful Grabow has been and completely focusing on which hand he throws the ball with. I can see why you're taking Lou's side on this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH FUCK, now I get it! You are totally right Butch. Lou should have totally ignored the Philllies numbers against righties and lefties and put in a right hander who had been pitching poorly, because IN THE PAST that right hander had been good. He should have NEVER put in the lefty who was pitching poorly, even though he had been an effective reliever in the past, because, well, I'm not exactly sure, but Lou should have known. Therefore Lou, and not Grabow and the offense, cost us the game. That makes total sense.
And I'm certain it's what any good manager would have done.
You've completely turned me around. If you are in the mood for any handy tips, you could have won me over earlier if you had simply twisted my words around MORE than you did, and ignored my main points MORE than you did.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure there's anything better than when BT gets like this.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So are you guys purposely winding him up? Making him out to be a Cubs management apologist? Talking about how he's Hendry's butt buddy? Do you do this on purpose just to get his blood pressure up? I can't tell if you're fucking with him or if you really think he believes in everythign Hendry and Piniella do.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing I have said in this thread was done to wind BT up.
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I'm a grumpy fuck that will jump on anyone that defends my scapegoat? Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Lou isn't a scapegoat. He sucks. Ramirez sucks, Lee sucks, Hendry sucks, the whole team sucks. I'm not making Lou out to be a scapegoat, but he IS a part of the problem. A big big part. A huge part. Enormous.
The funny thing is, since the season started, I've rarely posted anything about the Cubs, positive or negative. To say I jump on anyone is misguided for anything is misguided. I barely ever even talk about the Cubs anymore.
But i do read, and every time i read anyone say anything negative about this team, you inevitably jump in and defend anyone who's getting ripped. It's a constant, like the river flowing to the sea.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=99567:date=Jun 2 2010, 02:49 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 2 2010, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99565:date=Jun 2 2010, 02:45 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 2 2010, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99553:date=Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jun 2 2010, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99540:date=Jun 2 2010, 01:00 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jun 2 2010, 01:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->Nope. To be clear, I'm saying that Carlos Zambrano, despite his rocky start, is a GOOD pitcher who has faced the heart of many lineups with much success. I'm also saying that John Grabow couldn't retire the heart of a Pony League lineup. You're ignoring how godawful Grabow has been and completely focusing on which hand he throws the ball with. I can see why you're taking Lou's side on this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OH FUCK, now I get it! You are totally right Butch. Lou should have totally ignored the Philllies numbers against righties and lefties and put in a right hander who had been pitching poorly, because IN THE PAST that right hander had been good. He should have NEVER put in the lefty who was pitching poorly, even though he had been an effective reliever in the past, because, well, I'm not exactly sure, but Lou should have known. Therefore Lou, and not Grabow and the offense, cost us the game. That makes total sense.
And I'm certain it's what any good manager would have done.
You've completely turned me around. If you are in the mood for any handy tips, you could have won me over earlier if you had simply twisted my words around MORE than you did, and ignored my main points MORE than you did.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure there's anything better than when BT gets like this.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So are you guys purposely winding him up? Making him out to be a Cubs management apologist? Talking about how he's Hendry's butt buddy? Do you do this on purpose just to get his blood pressure up? I can't tell if you're fucking with him or if you really think he believes in everythign Hendry and Piniella do.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nothing I have said in this thread was done to wind BT up.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was trying to wind him up. I admit it.
Wang.
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Not to side with anyone, and I might not explain myself well, but wouldn't an individual pitcher's splits be more important than an individual batter's? Meaning that the fact that Grabow is worse vs. lefties should be more important than the fact that the batter is worse vs. the average LHP? I think it's safe to say that most lefthanded batters are worse vs. LHP- so if Grabow is worse vs. lefhanded batters than righties, doesn't that mean that he is so bad that he has overcome the general trend of lefties struggling vs LHP to the point that he actually makes them better than they are against the average RHP?... and following that, there is no reason to use his handedness as a crieteria for bringing him in.
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<!--quoteo(post=99570:date=Jun 2 2010, 04:06 PM:name=The Dude)-->QUOTE (The Dude @ Jun 2 2010, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to side with anyone, and I might not explain myself well, but wouldn't an individual pitcher's splits be more important than an individual batter's? Meaning that the fact that Grabow is worse vs. lefties should be more important than the fact that the batter is worse vs. the average LHP? I think it's safe to say that most lefthanded batters are worse vs. LHP- so if Grabow is worse vs. lefhanded batters than righties, doesn't that mean that he is so bad that he has overcome the general trend of lefties struggling vs LHP to the point that he actually makes them better than they are against the average RHP?... and following that, there is no reason to use his handedness as a crieteria for bringing him in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if Grabow is better against righties or lefties. Does it matter though? He sucks no matter who he's facing. Maybe I'd be way better against lefties. That doesn't mean you want me anywhere near a pitching rubber.
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Too much emphasis is put on in game managing, and not managing the players. Even if you make every correct decision, you may still lose the game. Even if you win games, it often gets to the point, the players resent, that you act like they can't win without your genious at the controls. Players are always going to want a manager who puts them in their roles and lets them win or lose the games.
Over a 162 game season, it is not always worth a move that increases your chance of winning one game by a couple %. That move could have a negative long term effect.
Lou is a fiery, willing to break some eggs, play a little bit by his guts manager. He has not been fiery, and has been breaking eggs like a guy trying to cook in the dark. He started out this way in 2007. It may be, that he has not got a handle on the team yet.
I like you guys a lot.
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<!--quoteo(post=99568:date=Jun 2 2010, 02:55 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 2 2010, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm a grumpy fuck that will jump on anyone that defends my scapegoat? Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Lou isn't a scapegoat. He sucks. Ramirez sucks, Lee sucks, Hendry sucks, the whole team sucks. I'm not making Lou out to be a scapegoat, but he IS a part of the problem. A big big part. A huge part. Enormous.
The funny thing is, since the season started, I've rarely posted anything about the Cubs, positive or negative. To say I jump on anyone is misguided for anything is misguided. I barely ever even talk about the Cubs anymore.
But i do read, and every time i read anyone say anything negative about this team, you inevitably jump in and defend anyone who's getting ripped. It's a constant, like the river flowing to the sea.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry I called you a grumpy fuck.
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<!--quoteo(post=99576:date=Jun 2 2010, 04:49 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 2 2010, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99568:date=Jun 2 2010, 02:55 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 2 2010, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm a grumpy fuck that will jump on anyone that defends my scapegoat? Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? Lou isn't a scapegoat. He sucks. Ramirez sucks, Lee sucks, Hendry sucks, the whole team sucks. I'm not making Lou out to be a scapegoat, but he IS a part of the problem. A big big part. A huge part. Enormous.
The funny thing is, since the season started, I've rarely posted anything about the Cubs, positive or negative. To say I jump on anyone is misguided for anything is misguided. I barely ever even talk about the Cubs anymore.
But i do read, and every time i read anyone say anything negative about this team, you inevitably jump in and defend anyone who's getting ripped. It's a constant, like the river flowing to the sea.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry I called you a grumpy fuck.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
I'm 100% fine with this. I'm just glad there's an actual plan in place that isn't, "Let's load up on retreads and hope we get lucky." I'm a little tired of that plan.
Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=99570:date=Jun 2 2010, 04:06 PM:name=The Dude)-->QUOTE (The Dude @ Jun 2 2010, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to side with anyone, and I might not explain myself well, but wouldn't an individual pitcher's splits be more important than an individual batter's? Meaning that the fact that Grabow is worse vs. lefties should be more important than the fact that the batter is worse vs. the average LHP? I think it's safe to say that most lefthanded batters are worse vs. LHP- so if Grabow is worse vs. lefhanded batters than righties, doesn't that mean that he is so bad that he has overcome the general trend of lefties struggling vs LHP to the point that he actually makes them better than they are against the average RHP?... and following that, there is no reason to use his handedness as a crieteria for bringing him in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a great point that is rarely considered.
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<!--quoteo(post=99589:date=Jun 2 2010, 05:24 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jun 2 2010, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=99570:date=Jun 2 2010, 04:06 PM:name=The Dude)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Dude @ Jun 2 2010, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to side with anyone, and I might not explain myself well, but wouldn't an individual pitcher's splits be more important than an individual batter's? Meaning that the fact that Grabow is worse vs. lefties should be more important than the fact that the batter is worse vs. the average LHP? I think it's safe to say that most lefthanded batters are worse vs. LHP- so if Grabow is worse vs. lefhanded batters than righties, doesn't that mean that he is so bad that he has overcome the general trend of lefties struggling vs LHP to the point that he actually makes them better than they are against the average RHP?... and following that, there is no reason to use his handedness as a crieteria for bringing him in.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a great point that is rarely considered.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wonderful point, except that the guy selling beers or the guy washing the Cubs' jock straps could have thrown better than Grabow (who has no business on the mound until he gets his shit worked out). Point taken, though... and it is a good point (Grabow's 2010 meltdown aside).
"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods." Albert Einstein
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