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<!--quoteo(post=95656:date=May 10 2010, 08:40 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 10 2010, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95655:date=May 10 2010, 08:38 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 10 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95648:date=May 10 2010, 08:24 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 10 2010, 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95645:date=May 10 2010, 08:21 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 10 2010, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95641:date=May 10 2010, 07:27 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 10 2010, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95639:date=May 10 2010, 06:16 AM:name=mindbodyspirit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mindbodyspirit @ May 10 2010, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->While it is exciting to see Castro come up and produce, it doesn't change the fact that ARAM and Lee aren't hitting. Replacing Fontenot's .300 average with Castro's doesn't change the fact that we have offensive sink holes in our corner IF spots. It is exciting, but changes nothing IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you can't discount the defensive improvement, but it hasn't mattered so far. Otherwise, you are probably correct
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You've seen a defensive improvement?
Small sample, blah, blah, blah but Castro's struggling at short.
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I haven't seen an improvement, but I don't think anyone who has watched Theriot at all over the years would expect Castro to be worse. I'm not jumping to any conclusions just yet.
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I'm not saying he won't be the best SS in the history of the game (he won't), just that he hasn't got his feet under him yet and he's not shown us an improvement at that position and anyone that says we're now better up the middle is dellusional. I think we will be but we're not yet.
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Well, I guess I don't understand what the disagreement is then. He should be an upgrade at SS, just hasn't shown it yet. 3 games changes nothing in my mind.
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You said we can't discount the defensive improvement. So far, it's pie in the sky. I'm discounting it...till there's a reason not to.
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<!--quoteo(post=95657:date=May 10 2010, 08:45 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 10 2010, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95656:date=May 10 2010, 08:40 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 10 2010, 08:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95655:date=May 10 2010, 08:38 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 10 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95648:date=May 10 2010, 08:24 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 10 2010, 08:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95645:date=May 10 2010, 08:21 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 10 2010, 08:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95641:date=May 10 2010, 07:27 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ May 10 2010, 07:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95639:date=May 10 2010, 06:16 AM:name=mindbodyspirit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mindbodyspirit @ May 10 2010, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->While it is exciting to see Castro come up and produce, it doesn't change the fact that ARAM and Lee aren't hitting. Replacing Fontenot's .300 average with Castro's doesn't change the fact that we have offensive sink holes in our corner IF spots. It is exciting, but changes nothing IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you can't discount the defensive improvement, but it hasn't mattered so far. Otherwise, you are probably correct
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You've seen a defensive improvement?
Small sample, blah, blah, blah but Castro's struggling at short.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I haven't seen an improvement, but I don't think anyone who has watched Theriot at all over the years would expect Castro to be worse. I'm not jumping to any conclusions just yet.
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I'm not saying he won't be the best SS in the history of the game (he won't), just that he hasn't got his feet under him yet and he's not shown us an improvement at that position and anyone that says we're now better up the middle is dellusional. I think we will be but we're not yet.
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Well, I guess I don't understand what the disagreement is then. He should be an upgrade at SS, just hasn't shown it yet. 3 games changes nothing in my mind.
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You said we can't discount the defensive improvement. So far, it's pie in the sky. I'm discounting it...till there's a reason not to.
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Dude, I meant <b>potential</b> improvement, if you want to mince words. I'm not getting into an argument over semantics. This isn't even close to pie in the sky in thinking that Castro is better. I'm done with this.
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Well, alrighty then. I won't bother rok any more about Castro's defense.
I'm just gun-shy about hype and I haven't seen anything from him. I've seen him flip over a rail on a foul ball within reach...I've seen him not throw to first to finish a DP, I've seen a nice error, some iffy range, etc. Brenly keeps saying he's got "a gun." Whatever. Love his bat...but he looks ragged in the infield. We all think it will get better. We all hope we're right.
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<!--quoteo(post=95666:date=May 10 2010, 09:26 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 10 2010, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Well, alrighty then. I won't bother rok any more about Castro's defense.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm ornery this morning.
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<!--quoteo(post=95669:date=May 10 2010, 09:50 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ May 10 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95666:date=May 10 2010, 09:26 AM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ May 10 2010, 09:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Well, alrighty then. I won't bother rok any more about Castro's defense.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm ornery this morning.
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You ol' cuss.
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If you don't think Castro, even at this current moment, looks better at SS than Theriot, you're batshit crazy. Theriot's been a 2B playing SS his whole career, he just about blows an O-ring every time he tries to throw to 1B, not to mention his non-existent range at SS. At 2B, he's pretty good, better than Fontenot or Baker by a good margin. The same margin that Castro is better than Theriot at SS by. Thinking that Castro isn't an automatic upgrade defensively at SS over Theriot is beyond goofy. I must be watching something different, because the differences I've seen in the past handful of days are very noticable.
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<!--quoteo(post=95679:date=May 10 2010, 11:06 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 10 2010, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If you don't think Castro, even at this current moment, looks better at SS than Theriot, you're batshit crazy.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think he looks better, but I'm a sucker for afros.
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I had one specific play in mind where Stubbs hit a grounder to the hole. Castro had to range to is right and picked it pretty easily while setting his feet. He threw a bullet to Lee without much effort and beat stubbs by a step. I'm don't think Theriot would have been able to make the same play.
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<!--quoteo(post=95690:date=May 10 2010, 12:31 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ May 10 2010, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I had one specific play in mind where Stubbs hit a grounder to the hole. Castro had to range to is right and picked it pretty easily while setting his feet. He threw a bullet to Lee without much effort and beat stubbs by a step. I'm don't think Theriot would have been able to make the same play.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep. Also, I think Theriot's looked pretty good turning DPs and receiveing the ball on thorws to 2B.
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<!--quoteo(post=95695:date=May 10 2010, 12:40 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 10 2010, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95690:date=May 10 2010, 12:31 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ May 10 2010, 12:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I had one specific play in mind where Stubbs hit a grounder to the hole. Castro had to range to is right and picked it pretty easily while setting his feet. He threw a bullet to Lee without much effort and beat stubbs by a step. I'm don't think Theriot would have been able to make the same play.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep. Also, I think Theriot's looked pretty good turning DPs and receiveing the ball on thorws to 2B.
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Yeah Theriot has looked impressive at 2B, I think thats a huge upgrade over Fontenot.
As for Castro, while he looks very polished and ready at the plate he is very raw on defense still. But obviously no doubt he has superior range and arm to Theriot. He is gonna make his mis-plays for for sure, but he is also gonna make plays Theriot could never make. So he is gonna be fine. Just the pop-ups he is gonna catch, Theriot and Soriano used to watch fall in shallow left will make a big difference.
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<!--quoteo(post=95679:date=May 10 2010, 11:06 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 10 2010, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If you don't think Castro, even at this current moment, looks better at SS than Theriot, you're batshit crazy. Theriot's been a 2B playing SS his whole career, he just about blows an O-ring every time he tries to throw to 1B, not to mention his non-existent range at SS. At 2B, he's pretty good, better than Fontenot or Baker by a good margin. The same margin that Castro is better than Theriot at SS by. Thinking that Castro isn't an automatic upgrade defensively at SS over Theriot is beyond goofy. I must be watching something different, because the differences I've seen in the past handful of days are very noticable.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You realize defense is made up of a number of components, including range, arm, glove, and intelligence, right? The fact that Castro has more range and a better arm than Theriot does not make him a better fielder than Theriot, by default, and certainly doesn't make anyone questioning his fielding so far a lunatic.
As the Sun Times pointed out today, in 3 games Castro:
-missed a tag
-committed an error
-missed a foul pop up
-failed to retire a batter on a slow roller.
Would Theriot have made all of these plays? I have no idea. He's a pretty limited shortstop. But to take all of these plays made/not made by Castro in only 3 games, and pretend he is Ozzie Smith, is crazy. I have no doubt that eventually Castro will be a much better fielder than Theriot. That doesn't mean he is now.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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<!--quoteo(post=95711:date=May 10 2010, 03:12 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ May 10 2010, 03:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=95679:date=May 10 2010, 11:06 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 10 2010, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If you don't think Castro, even at this current moment, looks better at SS than Theriot, you're batshit crazy. Theriot's been a 2B playing SS his whole career, he just about blows an O-ring every time he tries to throw to 1B, not to mention his non-existent range at SS. At 2B, he's pretty good, better than Fontenot or Baker by a good margin. The same margin that Castro is better than Theriot at SS by. Thinking that Castro isn't an automatic upgrade defensively at SS over Theriot is beyond goofy. I must be watching something different, because the differences I've seen in the past handful of days are very noticable.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You realize defense is made up of a number of components, including range, arm, glove, and intelligence, right? The fact that Castro has more range and a better arm than Theriot does not make him a better fielder than Theriot, by default, and certainly doesn't make anyone questioning his fielding so far a lunatic.
As the Sun Times pointed out today, in 3 games Castro:
-missed a tag
-committed an error
-missed a foul pop up
-failed to retire a batter on a slow roller.
Would Theriot have made all of these plays? I have no idea. He's a pretty limited shortstop. But to take all of these plays made/not made by Castro in only 3 games, and pretend he is Ozzie Smith, is crazy. I have no doubt that eventually Castro will be a much better fielder than Theriot. That doesn't mean he is now.
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He is better now though, and Theriot is better at 2B than Fontenot/Baker.
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<!--QuoteBegin-Jayson Stark+-->QUOTE (Jayson Stark)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Starlin Castro had more RBIs in his FIRST game (6) than Chipper Jones has had in ANY of his 2,192 games<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
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So far, Castro's defense FUCKING SUCKS, ok??
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<!--quoteo(post=95754:date=May 10 2010, 07:13 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ May 10 2010, 07:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So far, Castro's defense FUCKING SUCKS, ok??<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He should be right at home on this team then. There's no way that Theriot gets that ball that Castro just slipped trying to play in the 7th... no way in hell. You think a 20 year-old kid isn't going to be a bit nervous playing his first game at home? Give him a break.
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