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<!--quoteo(post=75787:date=Jan 12 2010, 10:29 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 12 2010, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, because Maddux is exactly the type of guy who would allow himself to be pimped in this manner for PR reasons.
Seriously, I think you guys are looking for conspiracies where there are none.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about conspiracy; it's about the business concept that perception trumps reality. The Cubs generally make some move shortly before the convention (of course, this is an inexact claim, as the convention does occur during a still-simmering point of the Hot Stove Season). Last year it was Bradley. The one year I attended the convention the team had just signed Rod Beck. The Shooter showed up at the Hilton looking like they just grabbed him out of the South Loop Club.
This year, no moves to promote at the convention (aside for those in the Chicago contingent of Grandmas Hot 4 Carlos Silva); thus the Maddux signing. I wouldn't be surprised if Maddux--as smart as you claim and I believe him to be--knows that he is being pimped to some degree, but he accepts it as all part of the business. I mean, now who's being naive, Kay? To some degree, most all ballplayers live with being "pimped," whether as guest at the Cubs convention or through their visage on plastic "collector's cups." The cool millions make the pimping seem less like pimping, but it happens nonetheless.
I iterate: I'm fine, even happy, with the move. I just also see it as a shrewd attempt to warm the frosty hearts of increasingly frigid fans.
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
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<!--quoteo(post=75791:date=Jan 12 2010, 09:54 PM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)-->QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Jan 12 2010, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=75787:date=Jan 12 2010, 10:29 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jan 12 2010, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, because Maddux is exactly the type of guy who would allow himself to be pimped in this manner for PR reasons.
Seriously, I think you guys are looking for conspiracies where there are none.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about conspiracy; it's about the business concept that perception trumps reality. The Cubs generally make some move shortly before the convention (of course, this is an inexact claim, as the convention does occur during a still-simmering point of the Hot Stove Season). Last year it was Bradley. The one year I attended the convention the team had just signed Rod Beck. The Shooter showed up at the Hilton looking like they just grabbed him out of the South Loop Club.
This year, no moves to promote at the convention (aside for those in the Chicago contingent of Grandmas Hot 4 Carlos Silva); thus the Maddux signing. I wouldn't be surprised if Maddux--as smart as you claim and I believe him to be--knows that he is being pimped to some degree, but he accepts it as all part of the business. I mean, now who's being naive, Kay? To some degree, most all ballplayers live with being "pimped," whether as guest at the Cubs convention or through their visage on plastic "collector's cups." The cool millions make the pimping seem less like pimping, but it happens nonetheless.
I iterate: I'm fine, even happy, with the move. I just also see it as a shrewd attempt to warm the frosty hearts of increasingly frigid fans.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is Maddux even going to the Convention? I don't believe so. What's the point of announcing this now for PR reasons if they don't plan on milking the situation with the fans? Again, I simply don't see this as a short term con job. Bringing him back into the organization has longer-term implications IMO.
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<!--quoteo(post=75775:date=Jan 12 2010, 08:43 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ Jan 12 2010, 08:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->What do the Cubs have to gain from having a feel good story right before the Cubs convention? Will it add people to the waiting list for season tickets? Will it get them over the 3 million attendenance mark? Will it help them dominate the White Sox in television and radio ratings?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't most new business owners want to make certain that they lower demand for their products and services rather than increase demand?
The week before the convention the Ricketts and Hendry should have made a huge announcement that 2010 Cubs season is most likely going to suck. They could hold a press conference announcing offseason is pretty much over and that the big move this offseason was dumping a very talented but jerk of a player for a non-talented washed up player. In addition, maybe Ricketts could review 2010 Cubs ticket price increases and explained that their rationale for the price increase was because they could and many fans are able to pay more for the tickets.
Sorry but I still don't understand Maddux's role for the team, nor do I Maddux's impact on 2010 Cubs will be more important than the man he replaced, Ed Lynch, impact on 2009 Cubs. Hopefully I am wrong.
To answer your questions, the feel good story the week before the convention helps fans forget that unlike the last couple of years, going into this season, the Cubs are not favorites to win the NL Central.
Will Maddux addition help: add to the season ticket waiting list, get attendance over 3 MM or help with TV and radio ratings? I don't expect to find one analyst who would say that signing Mad Dog would hurt the Cubs in any of these areas.
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I'm with Rok and Savant on this one. I don't know how "warming the frosty hearts of increasingly frigid fans" or "helping fans forget that unlike the last couple of years the Cubs are not favorites to win the NL Central" has anything to do with the Cubs convention. Now, do I think the Maddux signing does those things? Yeah, I would be a fool to believe otherwise. However, I think it's coincidental that it happened right before the Cubs convention. I don't know exactly what impact the convention has, but I'm willing to guess it doesn't have too much of an impact relative to other ways the Cubs can make money. The Cubs convention is forgotten long before spring training begins.
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<!--quoteo(post=75802:date=Jan 13 2010, 02:41 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 13 2010, 02:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Is Maddux even going to the Convention? I don't believe so. What's the point of announcing this now for PR reasons if they don't plan on milking the situation with the fans? Again, I simply don't see this as a short term con job. Bringing him back into the organization has longer-term implications IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet, in Greg's absence, I believe they will milk it nonetheless. I really don't think I'm suggesting anything that radical here--that bringing Maddux is as much of a move for image's sake as it is for substance (and probably moreso). You happen to believe the chief motive is long-term, I happen to believe the chief motive is damage control. I'd be happy if you were right, but I'd also be happy with a giant anthropomorphic bunny bringing sweets in a basket each spring.
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
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<!--quoteo(post=75814:date=Jan 13 2010, 09:19 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jan 13 2010, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->However, I think it's coincidental that it happened right before the Cubs convention.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe you're right. Let's see how much Maddux gets press out of the convention. Two years ago, the Cubs brought Jon Lieber back just before the Convention 2 years ago. Could have been coincidental timing. But I don't think it's a crazy proposal to say that a team would want to generate good vibes in their convention crowd to generate a better atmosphere in the ensuing news stories. I mean, that's P.R. 101, ain't it?
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
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Damage control? Seriously? I know the average fan isn't that bright, but come on. It isn't as though Maddux's name is going to come up in every breath at the convention and beyond. And if the fans are that dumb, you probably wouldn't need to add a future HOFer and fan favorite to your organization to make them believe in a miraculous WS victory in 2010. They believe it regardless.
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<!--quoteo(post=75822:date=Jan 13 2010, 12:32 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 13 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Damage control? Seriously? I know the average fan isn't that bright, but come on. It isn't as though Maddux's name is going to come up in every breath at the convention and beyond. And if the fans are that dumb, you probably wouldn't need to add a future HOFer and fan favorite to your organization to make them believe in a miraculous WS victory in 2010. They believe it regardless.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe I'm gonna hafta lay down the Whatev card. I've been rambling on to keep some thread going, but I really don't care that much about this. Although I must say that I can't imagine how people find it so hard to believe that the primary motivation for a move like this might just be good publicity.
Anyway, Maddux is affiliated with the Cubs again. Hooray.
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
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<!--quoteo(post=75824:date=Jan 13 2010, 12:36 PM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)-->QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Jan 13 2010, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=75822:date=Jan 13 2010, 12:32 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jan 13 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Damage control? Seriously? I know the average fan isn't that bright, but come on. It isn't as though Maddux's name is going to come up in every breath at the convention and beyond. And if the fans are that dumb, you probably wouldn't need to add a future HOFer and fan favorite to your organization to make them believe in a miraculous WS victory in 2010. They believe it regardless.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe I'm gonna hafta lay down the Whatev card. I've been rambling on to keep some thread going, but I really don't care that much about this. <b>Although I must say that I can't imagine how people find it so hard to believe that the primary motivation for a move like this might just be good publicity.</b>
Anyway, Maddux is affiliated with the Cubs again. Hooray.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that's where we completely disagree. You are not convincing me and I'm not trying to sway you in any way. I just see adding Greg as a long-term investment, while you obviously see it as just a short-term stunt.
Agree to disagree.
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<!--quoteo(post=75826:date=Jan 13 2010, 02:46 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 13 2010, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=75824:date=Jan 13 2010, 12:36 PM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Jan 13 2010, 12:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=75822:date=Jan 13 2010, 12:32 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jan 13 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Damage control? Seriously? I know the average fan isn't that bright, but come on. It isn't as though Maddux's name is going to come up in every breath at the convention and beyond. And if the fans are that dumb, you probably wouldn't need to add a future HOFer and fan favorite to your organization to make them believe in a miraculous WS victory in 2010. They believe it regardless.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe I'm gonna hafta lay down the Whatev card. I've been rambling on to keep some thread going, but I really don't care that much about this. <b>Although I must say that I can't imagine how people find it so hard to believe that the primary motivation for a move like this might just be good publicity.</b>
Anyway, Maddux is affiliated with the Cubs again. Hooray.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And that's where we completely disagree. You are not convincing me and I'm not trying to sway you in any way. I just see adding Greg as a long-term investment, while you obviously see it as just a short-term stunt.
Agree to disagree.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed here too. While I do think that the Cubs hired him partly because he's a guy that fans recognize, I also think he will help out the players as well. I would say that is the primary reason the Cubs hired him. I know an awful lot of people were happy when Maddux resigned here in 2004 because he was going to "teach our young guys the nuances of the game". Well, now instead of his primary role being to pitch, he can focus on coaching these guys up.
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Okay, one more thing: I hope that you are both right.
One dick can poke an eye out. A hundred dicks can move mountains.
--Veryzer
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Haha. I saw this story and was pretty happy to have Mad Dog back in the organization. I should have known that people would find a way to throw a negative spin on it. Regardless of whether or not this can be quantifiably translated directly into wins, this really can only have a positive effect in my opinion. The man's a smart guy and brings a hell of a lot of knowledge to the table.
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<!--quoteo(post=75802:date=Jan 13 2010, 01:41 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 13 2010, 01:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=75791:date=Jan 12 2010, 09:54 PM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Jan 12 2010, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=75787:date=Jan 12 2010, 10:29 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jan 12 2010, 10:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, because Maddux is exactly the type of guy who would allow himself to be pimped in this manner for PR reasons.
Seriously, I think you guys are looking for conspiracies where there are none.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not about conspiracy; it's about the business concept that perception trumps reality. The Cubs generally make some move shortly before the convention (of course, this is an inexact claim, as the convention does occur during a still-simmering point of the Hot Stove Season). Last year it was Bradley. The one year I attended the convention the team had just signed Rod Beck. The Shooter showed up at the Hilton looking like they just grabbed him out of the South Loop Club.
This year, no moves to promote at the convention (aside for those in the Chicago contingent of Grandmas Hot 4 Carlos Silva); thus the Maddux signing. I wouldn't be surprised if Maddux--as smart as you claim and I believe him to be--knows that he is being pimped to some degree, but he accepts it as all part of the business. I mean, now who's being naive, Kay? To some degree, most all ballplayers live with being "pimped," whether as guest at the Cubs convention or through their visage on plastic "collector's cups." The cool millions make the pimping seem less like pimping, but it happens nonetheless.
I iterate: I'm fine, even happy, with the move. I just also see it as a shrewd attempt to warm the frosty hearts of increasingly frigid fans.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bringing him back into the organization has longer-term implications IMO.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed
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