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<!--quoteo(post=72432:date=Dec 18 2009, 09:56 PM:name=dk123)-->QUOTE (dk123 @ Dec 18 2009, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->How about none of the above, unless it's a one year deal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeez. And that would be a <i>best</i>-case situation.
Should we add Coco Crisp to the list? His 94 career OPS+ would be <i>real</i> uninspiring if he didn't have a lot of other skills. He's one of the best defensive CFers in the game, and runs the bases real well. Of course, that makes him a slightly better Juan Pierre. Here's what SI.com had to say, FWIW (not much):
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Coco Crisp: some team is going to get a real bargain with him, assuming that he's something near his usual self after undergoing double shoulder surgery this year. (His agent, Steve Comte, says he'll be ready for spring training.) Crisp is a spectacular defender, one of the best outfielders in the game, and his running is good for 20 or more bases a year. Together with essentially average hitting, he's worth three to four wins more than a Quadruple-A scrub when healthy. That's in the range of what Jason Bay has done the last two years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=72440:date=Dec 19 2009, 01:13 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 19 2009, 01:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72432:date=Dec 18 2009, 09:56 PM:name=dk123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dk123 @ Dec 18 2009, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->How about none of the above, unless it's a one year deal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeez. And that would be a <i>best</i>-case situation.
Should we add Coco Crisp to the list? His 94 career OPS+ would be <i>real</i> uninspiring if he didn't have a lot of other skills. He's one of the best defensive CFers in the game, and runs the bases real well. Of course, that makes him a slightly better Juan Pierre. Here's what SI.com had to say, FWIW (not much):
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Coco Crisp: some team is going to get a real bargain with him, assuming that he's something near his usual self after undergoing double shoulder surgery this year. (His agent, Steve Comte, says he'll be ready for spring training.) Crisp is a spectacular defender, one of the best outfielders in the game, and his running is good for 20 or more bases a year. Together with essentially average hitting, he's worth three to four wins more than a Quadruple-A scrub when healthy. That's in the range of what Jason Bay has done the last two years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is that possibly true? Crisp is as valuable as Bay? That makes no sense.
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<!--quoteo(post=72444:date=Dec 19 2009, 07:19 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 19 2009, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72440:date=Dec 19 2009, 01:13 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 19 2009, 01:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72432:date=Dec 18 2009, 09:56 PM:name=dk123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dk123 @ Dec 18 2009, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->How about none of the above, unless it's a one year deal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeez. And that would be a <i>best</i>-case situation.
Should we add Coco Crisp to the list? His 94 career OPS+ would be <i>real</i> uninspiring if he didn't have a lot of other skills. He's one of the best defensive CFers in the game, and runs the bases real well. Of course, that makes him a slightly better Juan Pierre. Here's what SI.com had to say, FWIW (not much):
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Coco Crisp: some team is going to get a real bargain with him, assuming that he's something near his usual self after undergoing double shoulder surgery this year. (His agent, Steve Comte, says he'll be ready for spring training.) Crisp is a spectacular defender, one of the best outfielders in the game, and his running is good for 20 or more bases a year. Together with essentially average hitting, he's worth three to four wins more than a Quadruple-A scrub when healthy. That's in the range of what Jason Bay has done the last two years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is that possibly true? Crisp is as valuable as Bay? That makes no sense.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, Crisp in his best season barely was as good as Bay during his worst full season. I'm not sure I buy into these VORP stats across the board.
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<!--quoteo(post=72450:date=Dec 19 2009, 09:19 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Dec 19 2009, 09:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72444:date=Dec 19 2009, 07:19 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 19 2009, 07:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72440:date=Dec 19 2009, 01:13 AM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 19 2009, 01:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72432:date=Dec 18 2009, 09:56 PM:name=dk123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dk123 @ Dec 18 2009, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->How about none of the above, unless it's a one year deal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jeez. And that would be a <i>best</i>-case situation.
Should we add Coco Crisp to the list? His 94 career OPS+ would be <i>real</i> uninspiring if he didn't have a lot of other skills. He's one of the best defensive CFers in the game, and runs the bases real well. Of course, that makes him a slightly better Juan Pierre. Here's what SI.com had to say, FWIW (not much):
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Coco Crisp: some team is going to get a real bargain with him, assuming that he's something near his usual self after undergoing double shoulder surgery this year. (His agent, Steve Comte, says he'll be ready for spring training.) Crisp is a spectacular defender, one of the best outfielders in the game, and his running is good for 20 or more bases a year. Together with essentially average hitting, he's worth three to four wins more than a Quadruple-A scrub when healthy. That's in the range of what Jason Bay has done the last two years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How is that possibly true? Crisp is as valuable as Bay? That makes no sense.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, Crisp in his best season barely was as good as Bay during his worst full season. I'm not sure I buy into these VORP stats across the board.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stat use is pretty hard line, Rok...if you apply the rule to one thing, it typically means you have to apply it across the board.
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I don't buy that Crisp is as valuable as Bay. But some obvious reasons why they might be closer in value than is perceived: Crisp is a magnificent CFer, a more valuable position than LF. Even though LF is the easiest position on the diamond to play, Bay absolutely sucks at it, and is considered almost an AL-only, Dunn-like DH at this point.
Throw in the fact that he's a slow runner, and Crisp is a skillful speedster on the bases, and the gap in their hitting becomes smaller. Just a guess, though.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=72458:date=Dec 19 2009, 01:33 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 19 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't buy that Crisp is as valuable as Bay. But some obvious reasons why they might be closer in value than is perceived: Crisp is a magnificent CFer, a more valuable position than LF. Even though LF is the easiest position on the diamond to play, Bay absolutely sucks at it, and is considered almost an AL-only, Dunn-like DH at this point.
Throw in the fact that he's a slow runner, and Crisp is a skillful speedster on the bases, and the gap in their hitting becomes smaller. Just a guess, though.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bay is a lumbering corner OF-type, with something like six months of usability left in his career. He's like roster syphilis.
Crisp is a monster...a speedy little beast with all kinds of first-rate blast, and a ton of raw, untapped power...if, someone would just unharness it.
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And...by the way...the fact that you guys prefer Bay to Bradley, is further evidence of the racist mindset.
Did anyone say a word when Bay chainsawed through a nearly 100 year-old section of Fenway Park's underpinnings?
At what point are you people going to look at yourselves?
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<!--quoteo(post=72459:date=Dec 19 2009, 01:37 PM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 19 2009, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72458:date=Dec 19 2009, 01:33 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Dec 19 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I don't buy that Crisp is as valuable as Bay. But some obvious reasons why they might be closer in value than is perceived: Crisp is a magnificent CFer, a more valuable position than LF. Even though LF is the easiest position on the diamond to play, Bay absolutely sucks at it, and is considered almost an AL-only, Dunn-like DH at this point.
Throw in the fact that he's a slow runner, and Crisp is a skillful speedster on the bases, and the gap in their hitting becomes smaller. Just a guess, though.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bay is a lumbering corner OF-type, with something like six months of usability left in his career. He's like roster syphilis.
Crisp is a monster...a speedy little beast with all kinds of first-rate blast, and a ton of raw, untapped power...if, someone would just unharness it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My dick gets hard thinking that maybe Crisp is just a Jaramillo away from being worthwhile.
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<!--quoteo(post=72460:date=Dec 19 2009, 02:52 PM:name=Rappster)-->QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 19 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->And...by the way...the fact that you guys prefer Bay to Bradley, is further evidence of the racist mindset.
Did anyone say a word when Bay chainsawed through a nearly 100 year-old section of Fenway Park's underpinnings?
At what point are you people going to look at yourselves?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know it's the weekend, but perhaps you can find a helpful physician at a 24-hour urgent care clinic who might adjust your medications.
I'm 100% fine with this. I'm just glad there's an actual plan in place that isn't, "Let's load up on retreads and hope we get lucky." I'm a little tired of that plan.
Butcher
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<!--quoteo(post=72462:date=Dec 19 2009, 02:13 PM:name=Lance)-->QUOTE (Lance @ Dec 19 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=72460:date=Dec 19 2009, 02:52 PM:name=Rappster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rappster @ Dec 19 2009, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->And...by the way...the fact that you guys prefer Bay to Bradley, is further evidence of the racist mindset.
Did anyone say a word when Bay chainsawed through a nearly 100 year-old section of Fenway Park's underpinnings?
At what point are you people going to look at yourselves?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know it's the weekend, but perhaps you can find a helpful physician at a 24-hour urgent care clinic who might adjust your medications.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now you're see the whole field...
And...Bay did not (to the best of my knowledge) attack Fenway Park's substructure, and seems like a pretty decent fellow.
I also think he's an excellent player.
Crisp...as an everyday player...makes me salivate just about as much as Marlon Byrd.
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I would rather have Crisp then any of the other three. If Podsednik is signed to this team I will shit.
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<!--quoteo(post=72469:date=Dec 19 2009, 03:16 PM:name=funkster)-->QUOTE (funkster @ Dec 19 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I would rather have Crisp then any of the other three. If Podsednik is signed to this team I will shit.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When healthy, Crisp is about equal to Byrd but with more speed and better defense. I'm not convinced he will be 100% though for the entire 2010 season. The main benefit of Crisp over Byrd is that he can be had for a 1 year deal and less money.
He still doesn't excite me. None of the remaining CF options do.
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A healthy Crisp is by far the best option of the four. Plus, if there are questions about his health, he may be cheaper and demand fewer years than someone like Byrd.
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Podsednik never has been and never will be a major league centerfielder. Ankiel will make us wish for Corey patterson, and probably isn't a centerfielder. Marlon Byrd sucks, and is our best option. Felix Pie would be a lot more valuable to this team than the garbage we got for Heilman. Coco Crisp is probably still broken. Maybe two years max for Byrd, although I might be more inclined to go with Colvin or Fuld because Byrd is that under-whelming. DeJesus from KC, or Ryan Church, or Jeremy Reed might even be more palatable than multi-years for Byrd.
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Not to be that guy, but just curious... what's Podsednik's defense like?
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