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<!--quoteo(post=67815:date=Nov 1 2009, 12:14 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Nov 1 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Renovating Wrigley is important to the fans, not the product on the field. Yes, it would be nice to have larger facilities for the players, but in reality, I can't see where they would find the room on the premises. If it's to build the triangle building, super, but will it be connected somehow to Wrigley? I can't imagine the players running between the two buildings during a game.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've always wondered about this, so I'm glad you brought it up, Andy.
Is it physically impossible to build underground in that part of Chicago? Is that why the city has elevated trains instead of a subway? It could be; I honestly don't know.
Does anyone know about building codes, and the room for underground facilities in Chicago?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=67815:date=Nov 1 2009, 12:14 PM:name=Andy)-->QUOTE (Andy @ Nov 1 2009, 12:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Renovating Wrigley is important to the fans, not the product on the field. Yes, it would be nice to have larger facilities for the players, but in reality, I can't see where they would find the room on the premises. If it's to build the triangle building, super, but will it be connected somehow to Wrigley? I can't imagine the players running between the two buildings during a game.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Triangle Building will be connected to Wrigley through a skywalk.
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<!--quoteo(post=67758:date=Oct 31 2009, 01:55 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 31 2009, 01:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=67750:date=Oct 31 2009, 02:22 PM:name=HemisFear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (HemisFear @ Oct 31 2009, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=67747:date=Oct 31 2009, 01:33 PM:name=Mikey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mikey @ Oct 31 2009, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The All-Star Game would be part of the celebration of the 100th anniversary of Wrigley Field. By that time, the Ricketts family is expected to have spent between $200 million and $300 million in renovations on Wrigley.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is the single biggest thing that I wanted to see the Rickets family do. I know that most people thin Wrigley is a shrine to baseball, and it definately holds it's own charm, but I refuse to take my boys into such a pit of a baseball field. I'm really happy that they will be bringing the field up to speed in terms of cleanliness and making it more family freindly.
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A pit of a baseball field? I've taken my six-year-old daughter to Wrigley plenty of times and have never had a problem in any way. What do you want to see changed before you're able to bring your kids?
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1. The bathrooms are probably the most disgusting cesspools of filth out of any ballpark I've been to, and I've been all around the league. One issue that I constantly hear from Cub fans is that it's "not that bad" but the truth is, when you've been around the league and you see just how clean other stadiums are as compared to Wrigley, you begin (at least I do) to put things into a different perspective. I'll give you an example. When my firstborn was about 3 months old, I was going to take him to his first game but at the last minute he got sick and I couldn't go. Just so happens that I wander into the bathroom, and there is not one, but two heaping piles of feces sitting in the men's bathroom. As I was making sure I wasn't going to stand in too much piss on the floor, all I could think to myself was 'thank God I didn't bring Kyle'
2. Wrigley's interior smells like ass. Now I realize I'm discussing this in a "the Cubs and Wrigley are the holy grail of all things sports related" but I'm a realist and I hold the manufacturers of the products I support accountable.
3. Wrigley isn't "young family freindly" / improved security. I can't begin to tell you the amount of loud mouthed, know it all, "tough guys" who constantly want to show their ego off at any cost anytime I go. Now I haven't had too many problems at all and you're going to run into this sort of thing anytime you go to any sporting event, so this isnt' necissarily Wrigley specific, but I really would like to see a shift in the culture from a touristy, "happening" place for 20 30-somethings to hang out at.. to focusing more on bringing in a longer term strategy of a more family focused enviornment.
4. Food - Again, after having visited so many other parks around the country, it bothers the hell out of me that the Cubs, especially considering they live in the middle of yuppieville, dont' offer a more kid freindly assortment of food. Go to San Franscisco, Washington, hell even go to Miami and see the types of items you can get for yourself and your family while at the park. The food at Wrigley is some of the worst value and overall expereince in baseball.
The reality of Wrigely is two fold in my personal opinion. The field itself is everything it is billed to be. It's beautiful, it takes you back to a time that no other ballpark in the country can really take you to. It's just a unique experience that focuses on baseball rather than pomp and circumstance.
The guts of the place however, including the clubhouse is the worst in the league. Again, just my opinion, but I find nothing impressive about a dank, small, crammed, aged, foul smelling, park that is falling apart.
I guess I could be wrong.....but....if I were the Ricketts wouldn't be spending 200-300 million on renovations to fix the park.
I'm glad that they are doing what they can to REALLY give the fans a TOTALLY positive experience.
Butch - I'm glad that you haven't had any negative exeriences with your child at any games that you have been to. Out of the parks that I've brought my children to, I've never had a bad experience either.
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Just so happens that I wander into the bathroom, and there is not one, but two heaping piles of feces sitting in the men's bathroom. As I was making sure I wasn't going to stand in too much piss on the floor, all I could think to myself was 'thank God I didn't bring Kyle<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So it's your opinion that the layout of the bathrooms somehow promotes dumbasses shitting on the floor? How is the act of an idiot indicative of the layout of the park? I could go to the new Busch stadium, and shit on the concourses. Would that make it a "dump"?
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->2. Wrigley's interior smells like ass. Now I realize I'm discussing this in a "the Cubs and Wrigley are the holy grail of all things sports related" but I'm a realist and I hold the manufacturers of the products I support accountable.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is personal, and I can't tell you what your experience was, but I have never smelled "ass" at the park, unless I was in the bathrooms. Because there are asses in the bathrooms.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Now I haven't had too many problems at all and you're going to run into this sort of thing anytime you go to any sporting event, so this isnt' necissarily Wrigley specific,<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then it really isn't a point in favor of Wrigley being a "pit", is it? There are loud mouthed drunks in every park I've ever been to.
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->4. Food<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll grant you the food isn't very good at Wrigley, but I personally don't think it's a big deal. More importantly, how does a poor menu translate into a park being "a pit"?
You've given a number of reasons why your experiences at Wrigley might not be ideal, but only one of them can even remotely qualify as a reason to call it a pit.
I wish that I believed in Fate. I wish I didn't sleep so late. I used to be carried in the arms of cheerleaders.
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Hmm, so you really think we're not realists because we don't think Wrigley isn't quite as shitty as you think it is. So I asked my wife, who is not from Chicago and did not grow up a Cubs fan, what she thought of Wrigley and she pretty much said it's pretty much like everywhere else she's been too. She's been to Yankee Stadium, Giants Stadium, Madison Square Garden, among the more well know facilities for various sporting and concert events and according to her they're pretty much the same and Wrigley certainly does not stand out as the shit hole you described it as. In fact, the only thing she said was different was that the bathrooms at Wrigley had an attendant.
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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Wrigley is not a shithole in my estimation. It's just old. It's dated. These aren't crimes and not rocket science to amend.
We expect better amenities in modern facilities and adding them to older facilities is a very doable challenge. Little things like a 100 year-old handrail, bumpy from 50 coats of paint finally get replaced...think of this a symbol of the overall approach.
Bathrooms? Gutted, expanded and looking like brand new...since they will (or should) be.
Food? More choices...fine...but I'm an expat so when I'm there all I want is a Polish or Italian Beef and maybe a Frosty Malt with a flat wooden spoon. If the Old Style ever goes I will be PISSED.
Earlier this summer we discussed a modern scoreboard on perhaps the Horeshoe rooftop. I'm in favor of this and would be surprised if something similar hadn't ocured to Ricketts.
I don't see much in the way of player gameday facilities in the Triangle. maybe some offices, weight rooms, etc. will be in part of it...possibly batting cages. The question of going underground with connecting tunnels is interesting. I don't see players moving between the two structures via skywalk. I imagine the building having more to do with fan experience and that anything that can be relocated from Wrigley proper to the Triangle creates opportunities for thoughtful remodeling of the unseen portions of the ballpark...new clubhouses and such.
I'd oppose an effort to relocate the bullpens. Their current location is a part of the Wrigley experience.
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<!--quoteo(post=67838:date=Nov 1 2009, 05:29 PM:name=HemisFear)-->QUOTE (HemisFear @ Nov 1 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->1. The bathrooms are probably the most disgusting cesspools of filth out of any ballpark I've been to, and I've been all around the league. One issue that I constantly hear from Cub fans is that it's "not that bad" but the truth is, when you've been around the league and you see just how clean other stadiums are as compared to Wrigley, you begin (at least I do) to put things into a different perspective. I'll give you an example. When my firstborn was about 3 months old, I was going to take him to his first game but at the last minute he got sick and I couldn't go. Just so happens that I wander into the bathroom, and there is not one, but two heaping piles of feces sitting in the men's bathroom. As I was making sure I wasn't going to stand in too much piss on the floor, all I could think to myself was 'thank God I didn't bring Kyle'
2. Wrigley's interior smells like ass. Now I realize I'm discussing this in a "the Cubs and Wrigley are the holy grail of all things sports related" but I'm a realist and I hold the manufacturers of the products I support accountable.
3. Wrigley isn't "young family freindly" / improved security. I can't begin to tell you the amount of loud mouthed, know it all, "tough guys" who constantly want to show their ego off at any cost anytime I go. Now I haven't had too many problems at all and you're going to run into this sort of thing anytime you go to any sporting event, so this isnt' necissarily Wrigley specific, but I really would like to see a shift in the culture from a touristy, "happening" place for 20 30-somethings to hang out at.. to focusing more on bringing in a longer term strategy of a more family focused enviornment.
4. Food - Again, after having visited so many other parks around the country, it bothers the hell out of me that the Cubs, especially considering they live in the middle of yuppieville, dont' offer a more kid freindly assortment of food. Go to San Franscisco, Washington, hell even go to Miami and see the types of items you can get for yourself and your family while at the park. The food at Wrigley is some of the worst value and overall expereince in baseball.
The reality of Wrigely is two fold in my personal opinion. The field itself is everything it is billed to be. It's beautiful, it takes you back to a time that no other ballpark in the country can really take you to. It's just a unique experience that focuses on baseball rather than pomp and circumstance.
The guts of the place however, including the clubhouse is the worst in the league. Again, just my opinion, but I find nothing impressive about a dank, small, crammed, aged, foul smelling, park that is falling apart.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I live in Chicago and have been lucky enough to attend about 25 games a year since the mid 80's. I attend at least half of these games with my nephews or niece, I began taking them to games in the early 90s so they have literally grown up attending games. From your description of the place, it appears that I could be taken up on child abuse charges for attending games with them.
Wrigley is an ancient field which has a number of issues but I would contend that many of the facility issues mentioned are player-related - e.g. batting cages, dugouts, warm up areas, locker rooms - rather than fan-related. Otherwise, I wouldn't expect too much from future improvements.
The frat boy atmosphere at Wrigley is not significantly worse than what I've experienced at other venues. Have you tried sitting in the bleachers at Fenway during a weekend game or maybe watching the Raiders at McAfee Coliseum? Unfortunately, it appears that this atmosphere issue has gotten worse across most venues across the country so I don't see how a new owner is going to stop this trend.
The comment during the press conference regarding returning beer vendors to the bleachers doesn't point Rickett's commitment to decreasing the rowdiness factor at games.
I agree that Wrigley is not child friendly but there are small areas which are more family oriented and with some additional care in selecting which games to attend one can limit exposure to the drunken idiots who are at Wrigley just to drink and get rowdy.
Unfortunately overall, my suggestion is to stay away from Wrigley. I just have a difficult time believing regardless of your desire to attend a home Cubs game that someone would endure 3 hours of smelling ass, dealing with tough guys, bad food selections and cesspools of filth to do so.
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<!--quoteo(post=67867:date=Nov 2 2009, 07:01 AM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Nov 2 2009, 07:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wrigley is not a shithole in my estimation. It's just old. It's dated. These aren't crimes and not rocket science to amend.
We expect better amenities in modern facilities and adding them to older facilities is a very doable challenge. Little things like a 100 year-old handrail, bumpy from 50 coats of paint finally get replaced...think of this a symbol of the overall approach.
Bathrooms? Gutted, expanded and looking like brand new...since they will (or should) be.
Food? More choices...fine...but I'm an expat so when I'm there all I want is a Polish or Italian Beef and maybe a Frosty Malt with a flat wooden spoon. If the Old Style ever goes I will be PISSED.
Earlier this summer we discussed a modern scoreboard on perhaps the Horeshoe rooftop. I'm in favor of this and would be surprised if something similar hadn't ocured to Ricketts.
I don't see much in the way of player gameday facilities in the Triangle. maybe some offices, weight rooms, etc. will be in part of it...possibly batting cages. The question of going underground with connecting tunnels is interesting. I don't see players moving between the two structures via skywalk. I imagine the building having more to do with fan experience and that anything that can be relocated from Wrigley proper to the Triangle creates opportunities for thoughtful remodeling of the unseen portions of the ballpark...new clubhouses and such.
I'd oppose an effort to relocate the bullpens. Their current location is a part of the Wrigley experience.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the food does blow. that's easily fixed. the bathrooms are terrible, i think that will be addressed. the smell of ass is bullshit. it's an outdoor park, you aren't smelling ass unless it's your own. drunks and loudmouths are everywhere. the rampant racism? that only happens at wrigley and should be stopped, or else start banning black people.
Wang.
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All I can say is that it's my opinion that Wrigley isn't a place (yet) that I will take my young kids for safety, cleanliness, quality control, etc issues.
I'm sure it may be fine for most folks, and that's their prerogative, but it's just not a place that I feel I want to pay my family dollars to, let alone bring my children to. Wrigley is pretty much the only ballpark in the country that I have ever visited, and thought to myself 'it really is a shame that the owners care so little for their fans'. I agree that in part, it's just because of the age of the park, but the reality is that this issue has been vastly overlooked on multiple occasions because the fans continue to support the team and come to the ballpark regardless of it's condition or the quality of the enviornment as a whole.
My oldest son is now asking me regularly about the Cubs, and I would really love it if I could feel completely happy about taking him into Wrigley. I'm very pleased that the Ricketts plan to upgrade the park.
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<!--quoteo(post=67872:date=Nov 2 2009, 07:55 AM:name=HemisFear)-->QUOTE (HemisFear @ Nov 2 2009, 07:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->All I can say is that it's my opinion that Wrigley isn't a place (yet) that I will take my young kids for safety, cleanliness, quality control, etc issues.
I'm sure it may be fine for most folks, and that's their prerogative, but it's just not a place that I feel I want to pay my family dollars to, let alone bring my children to. Wrigley is pretty much the only ballpark in the country that I have ever visited, and thought to myself 'it really is a shame that the owners care so little for their fans'. I agree that in part, it's just because of the age of the park, but the reality is that this issue has been vastly overlooked on multiple occasions because the fans continue to support the team and come to the ballpark regardless of it's condition or the quality of the enviornment as a whole.
My oldest son is now asking me regularly about the Cubs, and I would really love it if I could feel completely happy about taking him into Wrigley. I'm very pleased that the Ricketts plan to upgrade the park.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Translation:
I'm a cheap ass and I don't want to pay for Cubs tickets.
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I can't imagine what it is that you are so afraid of that you can't take your son to at least one game. I've never met anyone who was even remotely a Cubs fan (even my father, who HATES the ballpark took me all the time when I was a kid) who refused to take their children to the ballpark because of safety or aesthetic reasons. People are free to do what they want, but this is just bizarre reasoning, and the first time I've heard it from a fan with children.
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I would never take my kids to sit in the bleachers (at least not at their current ages), but anywhere else in the ballpark seems totally fine to me. To each his own, of course, but I don't see it -- and I'm a pretty protective parent.
As a side note, I've been to many ballparks over the years, and I have never seen a rowdier baseball crowd than at Pro Player (or whatever the name of the place the Marlins play is called). Within 10 minutes of me finding my seat, I saw a guy scream, "YOU'RE A FUCKING ASSHOLE!" to another guy, while holding his 7 or 8 year old son's hand and another guy turn around and say, "If you bump me in the back with your knee again, I'm going to smack your wife!" No joke.
I've seen bad behavior at Wrigley before, but nothing approaching the evening I spent at the Cubs/Marlins game. Not even close. As far as the food there, I ordered a hot dog, and it was served on a sesame seed hot dog bun. So I'm not sure what else there is to say...
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->but the reality is that this issue has been vastly overlooked on multiple occasions because the fans continue to support the team and come to the ballpark regardless of it's condition or the quality of the enviornment as a whole.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's our fault.
When will we learn that the real recipe for success for a sports team is ambivalence and apathy from their fan base.
You're really more of a sox fan aren't you?
Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them.
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i have no problems whatsoever taking my kids to wrigley. took them there this year as a matter of fact. outside of the restrooms, it's a great place to take the family.
Wang.
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Wrigley is old. I don't think there's anyway around that. It doesn't have a lot of the amenities of the newer stadiums. The bathrooms are ridiculous, the food sucks, the place is slowly falling apart and the bleachers have a plenty of obnoxious characters. On the other hand, it's an insult to the history of the game to not bring a child to see a stadium that gives a glimpse to the early years of baseball. I brought my first born to Wrigley before she was 6 months old. The experience is what you decide to make of it. Obviously the bleachers aren't the best place for kids. Other than that, Wrigley is a special place.
That said, I'd still have no problem with a new/different stadium. Wrigley field has history, but it hasn't been positive from a baseball perspective. Since that won't happen anytime soon, I really hope they make the triangle building something decent. The last thing you want to do is push away players because your facilities suck.
I got nothin'.
Andy
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