Giants sign Howry

[leonardsipes]

Selig has orchestrated many of the recent ownership changes (and is now trying to install his friend as owner of the Cubs). He has more clout and has probably starting to convince the owners that they would be better off if MLB was run more centrally like NBA and NFL. The new corporate ownerships groups may put profit ahead of winning.

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=1237:date=Dec 4 2008, 10:50 AM:name=leonardsipes)-->QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Dec 4 2008, 10:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Selig has orchestrated many of the recent ownership changes (and is now trying to install his friend as owner of the Cubs). He has more clout and has probably starting to convince the owners that they would be better off if MLB was run more centrally like NBA and NFL. The new corporate ownerships groups may put profit ahead of winning.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which of the 3 remaining bidders is Selig's buddy?, because I don't see one.

[leonardsipes]

I was stretching my point a little. Canning appears to be out of it, but dark forces are at work. You never know.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=1208:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There's no doubt in my mind that teams simple decided he wasn't worth the headache at any price.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not that naive.

[PcB]

<!--quoteo(post=1206:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:26 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Dec 4 2008, 08:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1204:date=Dec 4 2008, 09:08 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 09:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1189:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:18 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 07:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1188:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:16 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 08:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1185:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:13 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 07:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've never understood the collusion argument in this context. If a team really wants a player, does anyone actually believe they'll pass on signing him because they've "agreed" not to outbid the lowball offer of another team? Please.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The entire league agreed not to offer Barry Bonds a contract last year, so I don't really think it's that far of a stretch. Hasn't the league been found guilty of collusion before?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm sure they have -but it still makes no sense to me. Bonds is a perfect example - do you really believe a team that REALLY wanted Barry would say, damn, we could have him for chump change, but since we all agreed not to sign him, we won't get him for next to nothing. I just don't buy it.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I absolutely believe there was an effort made to keep him out. He was colluded against, there's no doubt in my mind.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I agree...with Ruby. There were a few teams that could've used Bonds bat last year, and he wouldn't have been that expensive to sign. I can't really think of any other explanation.

[Butcher]

Wasn't Bonds hurt at the end of '07? I don't think he was ready to play at the start of '08. He's hurt, he hadn't swung a bat in months, he's going to attract a bunch of negative attention, he's a potential clubhouse distraction...

I can see both sides of it, though. Maybe he was worth the risk, but I could see why most teams would pass on him.

[cigar]

I agree with Ruby as well. His agent was practically begging teams to sign him. They were just talking about this on XM earlier this week.

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=1253:date=Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1208:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There's no doubt in my mind that teams simple decided he wasn't worth the headache at any price.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not that naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So to be clear:

It's naive to believe that there is no way you could get 30 teams, completely self-interested and with a HUGE amount of money to be made if they win, with varying budgetary constraints, to artificially agree not to sign the best hitter of the last 10 years for pennies.

That's what you're saying?

Ok, I'm naive.

[Captain]

Me too HTC.....must be a bug or somethin' going around.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=1325:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:51 PM:name=Captain)-->QUOTE (Captain @ Dec 4 2008, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Me too HTC.....must be a bug or somethin' going around.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong thread. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]

[Captain]

<!--quoteo(post=1333:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:48 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 4 2008, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1325:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:51 PM:name=Captain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Captain @ Dec 4 2008, 08:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Me too HTC.....must be a bug or somethin' going around.

[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong thread. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

damn rookies.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=1315:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:00 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1253:date=Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1208:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There's no doubt in my mind that teams simple decided he wasn't worth the headache at any price.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not that naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So to be clear:

It's naive to believe that there is no way you could get 30 teams, completely self-interested and with a HUGE amount of money to be made if they win, with varying budgetary constraints, to artificially agree not to sign the best hitter of the last 10 years for pennies.

That's what you're saying?

Ok, I'm naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're talking about the same league that's been found guilty of collusion multiple times and has been fined 10's of millions of dollars for it. The same league that's been trying to do everything it can to distance itself from Bonds and steroids in general. So yeah, I think you're being more than a little naive.

[SandbergMVP1984]

<!--quoteo(post=1342:date=Dec 4 2008, 09:02 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1315:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:00 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1253:date=Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1208:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There's no doubt in my mind that teams simple decided he wasn't worth the headache at any price.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not that naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So to be clear:

It's naive to believe that there is no way you could get 30 teams, completely self-interested and with a HUGE amount of money to be made if they win, with varying budgetary constraints, to artificially agree not to sign the best hitter of the last 10 years for pennies.

That's what you're saying?

Ok, I'm naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're talking about the same league that's been found guilty of collusion multiple times and has been fined 10's of millions of dollars for it. The same league that's been trying to do everything it can to distance itself from Bonds and steroids in general. So yeah, I think you're being more than a little naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ruby... gets it (??)

[Ace]

<!--quoteo(post=1380:date=Dec 5 2008, 12:08 AM:name=Sandberg)-->QUOTE (Sandberg @ Dec 5 2008, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1342:date=Dec 4 2008, 09:02 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1315:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:00 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1253:date=Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1208:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There's no doubt in my mind that teams simple decided he wasn't worth the headache at any price.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not that naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So to be clear:

It's naive to believe that there is no way you could get 30 teams, completely self-interested and with a HUGE amount of money to be made if they win, with varying budgetary constraints, to artificially agree not to sign the best hitter of the last 10 years for pennies.

That's what you're saying?

Ok, I'm naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're talking about the same league that's been found guilty of collusion multiple times and has been fined 10's of millions of dollars for it. The same league that's been trying to do everything it can to distance itself from Bonds and steroids in general. So yeah, I think you're being more than a little naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ruby... gets it (??)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Not this time. Unlike other examples of collusion where it is to drive down salaries across the board - and everyone wins - in this example, what's the upside for teams? Especially for teams that could get Barry for chump change? The answer is there isn't. So ruby's theory rests on the idea that all 30 teams would feel strong-armed enough by Selig, effectively, not to do what would be great for their team and cost them next to nothing.

I mean, what, you think Bud threatened to kick the team out of the league if they signed Barry?

Sorry. This example just doesn't fit.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=1394:date=Dec 5 2008, 06:47 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 5 2008, 06:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1380:date=Dec 5 2008, 12:08 AM:name=Sandberg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sandberg @ Dec 5 2008, 12:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1342:date=Dec 4 2008, 09:02 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 09:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1315:date=Dec 4 2008, 07:00 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1253:date=Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Dec 4 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1208:date=Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Dec 4 2008, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->There's no doubt in my mind that teams simple decided he wasn't worth the headache at any price.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not that naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

So to be clear:

It's naive to believe that there is no way you could get 30 teams, completely self-interested and with a HUGE amount of money to be made if they win, with varying budgetary constraints, to artificially agree not to sign the best hitter of the last 10 years for pennies.

That's what you're saying?

Ok, I'm naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're talking about the same league that's been found guilty of collusion multiple times and has been fined 10's of millions of dollars for it. The same league that's been trying to do everything it can to distance itself from Bonds and steroids in general. So yeah, I think you're being more than a little naive.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ruby... gets it (??)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Not this time. Unlike other examples of collusion where it is to drive down salaries across the board - and everyone wins - in this example, what's the upside for teams? Especially for teams that could get Barry for chump change? The answer is there isn't. So ruby's theory rests on the idea that all 30 teams would feel strong-armed enough by Selig, effectively, not to do what would be great for their team and cost them next to nothing.

I mean, what, you think Bud threatened to kick the team out of the league if they signed Barry?

Sorry. This example just doesn't fit.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you don't think there was direction from the commisoner's office to stay away from Bonds, you're goofy.