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<!--quoteo(post=14348:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:45 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Jan 28 2009, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->This offseason reminds me a lot of the first time I tried to play CSFBL. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing so I ended up making a bunch of pointless trades, trading for essentially the same player. Ace kept dangling players over my head but I didn't have the necessities to acquire them. So I made more pointless trades for the same types of players and didn't end up getting any of Ace's players until I overpaid because I was frustrated from all the earlier pointless work and moves I made.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds just about right.
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Maybe Hendry is just trying to make the baseball version of "6 Degrees of Separation" easier for everyone. If that's the case then we all win!
If Angelo had picked McClellin, I would have been expecting to hear by training camp that kid has stage 4 cancer, is actually 5'2" 142 lbs, is a chick who played in a 7 - 0 defensive scheme who only rotated in on downs which were 3 and 34 yds + so is not expecting to play a down in the NFL until the sex change is complete and she puts on another 100 lbs. + but this is Emery's first pick so he'll get a pass with a bit of questioning. - 1060Ivy
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<!--quoteo(post=14348:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:45 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Jan 28 2009, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->This offseason reminds me a lot of the first time I tried to play CSFBL. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing so I ended up making a bunch of pointless trades, trading for essentially the same player. Ace kept dangling players over my head but I didn't have the necessities to acquire them. So I made more pointless trades for the same types of players and didn't end up getting any of Ace's players until I overpaid because I was frustrated from all the earlier pointless work and moves I made.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jim? Is that you?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=14336:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:20 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14314:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:12 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14309:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:07 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14302:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:02 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14289:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:43 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14268:date=Jan 28 2009, 12:54 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i think a lot of you overvalue pie and cedeno. it's entirely possible that what we got fro them is all we were ever gonna get. there was no place on this team for either of them. so we get heilman, who before last year, was a solid middle reliever for 3 years. i don't think we're all that much worse than last year. maybe we're better.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think we're better or worse, but I do think we've made a whole bunch of moves for no reason.
Also, there's no way that I believe that all of these moves were made with the intention of getting Peavy, it's too many moving parts. I just don't realistically see Hendry (or anyone) sitting down and thinking "Hey, I need to trade these 6 or 7 guys and replace them with these 6 or 7 guys in order to get Jake Peavy on my roster." That's just not what's happening here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
then what is happening? if you don't think he's doing it to get peavy, then why? if it doesn't make sense in the context of getting peavy, then how does it make sense in the context of trading just to make trades?
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You got me, but no sane person shuffles in 12 new faces and ushers out 6 other faces just to make room for 1 guy, that doesn't happen, that's compelte overkill.
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but a sane person doesn't do it to make room for 0 people either.
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You can't possibly think that Hendry had to make 5 moves(not resign Wood, trade DeRosa, trade Pie, trade Marquis, trade Olson & Cedeno) in order to get Peavy, can you? That's not what's happening here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You don't get to decide what's happening.
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I hate having to keep defending Heilman, but he hasn't been a middle reliever - he's been a setup man. There is a difference.
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<!--quoteo(post=14357:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate having to keep defending Heilman, but he hasn't been a middle reliever - he's been a setup man. There is a difference.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the difference? 7th inning vs. 8th inning?
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<!--quoteo(post=14358:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14357:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate having to keep defending Heilman, but he hasn't been a middle reliever - he's been a setup man. There is a difference.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the difference? 7th inning vs. 8th inning?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Middle reliever connotes washed up starter or untested youth. Setup connotes upper tier reliever, typically pitching in high-pressure, late-inning situations.
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<!--quoteo(post=14359:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:00 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14358:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14357:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate having to keep defending Heilman, but he hasn't been a middle reliever - he's been a setup man. There is a difference.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the difference? 7th inning vs. 8th inning?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Middle reliever connotes washed up starter or untested youth. Setup connotes upper tier reliever, typically pitching in high-pressure, late-inning situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what if you suck in the high-pressure, late-inning situations? Like...say...you put up an ERA over 5.00? Would he still be considered an "upper tier" reliever?
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<!--quoteo(post=14362:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:02 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14359:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:00 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14358:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14357:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate having to keep defending Heilman, but he hasn't been a middle reliever - he's been a setup man. There is a difference.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the difference? 7th inning vs. 8th inning?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Middle reliever connotes washed up starter or untested youth. Setup connotes upper tier reliever, typically pitching in high-pressure, late-inning situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what if you suck in the high-pressure, late-inning situations? Like...say...you put up an ERA over 5.00? Would he still be considered an "upper tier" reliever?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img]
(it was <i>well </i>over 5, wasn't it? Not that the Mets could have used an effective reliever last season, or anything).
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=14362:date=Jan 28 2009, 04:02 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14359:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:00 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14358:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14357:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate having to keep defending Heilman, but he hasn't been a middle reliever - he's been a setup man. There is a difference.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the difference? 7th inning vs. 8th inning?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Middle reliever connotes washed up starter or untested youth. Setup connotes upper tier reliever, typically pitching in high-pressure, late-inning situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what if you suck in the high-pressure, late-inning situations? Like...say...you put up an ERA over 5.00? Would he still be considered an "upper tier" reliever?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Depends. Did you suck for just one year, immediately preceded by 3 consecutive dominant years; the entire time during which you had a K/9 near 9?
Because if so, then yes.
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<!--quoteo(post=14362:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:02 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14359:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:00 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 03:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14358:date=Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14357:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hate having to keep defending Heilman, but he hasn't been a middle reliever - he's been a setup man. There is a difference.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's the difference? 7th inning vs. 8th inning?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Middle reliever connotes washed up starter or untested youth. Setup connotes upper tier reliever, typically pitching in high-pressure, late-inning situations.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And what if you suck in the high-pressure, late-inning situations? Like...say...you put up an ERA over 5.00? Would he still be considered an "upper tier" reliever?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was that last year, or for his career? As of right now he is going to be the fifth starter here.
"Drink Up and Beat Off!"
-KBWSB
"Will I be looked on poorly if my religion involved punting little people?"
-Jody
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As Ace points out, Heilman had OVER a K-per-inning last year. So maybe he just had a bad luck/bad vibe year, and could bounce back in '09. I will admit, it is certainly possible.
However, to expect him to pitch 200 innings (ala Marquis) when he has never come <i>close</i> to that total...kind of a crapshoot, at best, no?
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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<!--quoteo(post=14375:date=Jan 28 2009, 04:26 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 28 2009, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->As Ace points out, Heilman had OVER a K-per-inning last year. So maybe he just had a bad luck/bad vibe year, and could bounce back in '09. I will admit, it is certainly possible.
However, to expect him to pitch 200 innings (ala Marquis) when he has never come <i>close</i> to that total...kind of a crapshoot, at best, no?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally, I'm not expecting him to be a pure 5th starter, though, so we're not really comparing the same thing. I think Jim probably wants him to be a starter, but he hasn't started in 4 years, and he's been great in the pen in that time. I sort of expect to see (if nothing changed) three guys rotation through two spots (Heilman, Harden, and Marshall).
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I don't understand why we went through all the trouble to get Olson just to spin him off for Heilman. Now, I don't care about him and I couldn't care less about Cedeno, but it just seems like a lot simply to acquire a guy that doesn't really have a defined role on this team. I can't imagine how Heilman would nudge Marshall out of the rotation, but I guess he could be added insurance in case no one takes the #5 job or if we have trouble deciding who should set up. All in all though, it just seems like a lot of talent to give up for a lateral move.
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Rok, it's mystifying to be sure.
But if you allow yourself to think like Jim for a moment, it makes some sense...he's always coveted Heilman, and you know how Jim is with guys he's always liked. He prolly isn't too crazy about either Cedeno or Pie, and it's clear than Lou despises them both. So he cleaned house.
In Jim's mind, Heilman is a kick-ass set-up man, with the distinct possibility of becoming a surprising 5th starter.
It does make some sense. Some.
There's nothing better than to realize that the good things about youth don't end with youth itself. It's a matter of realizing that life can be renewed every day you get out of bed without baggage. It's tough to get there, but it's better than the dark thoughts. -Lance
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