Cubs Close to Acquiring Aaron Heilman

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=14298:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14294:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:51 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14292:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:49 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 28 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14286:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:40 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14285:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:37 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14282:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:23 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14276:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:11 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Peavy (or some other impact player doesn't come our way), then it's the DeRosa deal that is really puzzling. With Bradley looking like our only "big" acquisition this offseason now, it would've been really nice to have DeRosa on board to take his spot in RF for the 50-75 games he misses.
I'll wait until the offseason is over to make a final judgment, but right now it looks like Hendry is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The 2009 Cubs are a sinking ship?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I overshot it a bit with the Titanic reference. But I do think, for all of these moves, we've either taken a step backwards or stayed stationary. A lot of time and energy has been spent on doing what seems like very little.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
with all due respect, i disagree. we lost derosa, but fontenot/miles will fill his spot well. we lost wood, but gregg will take his spot. we lost pie and cedeno and they sucked anyway. bradley is an upgrade and i think heilman is too. where did we take a step back?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, with all due respect:
DeRosa > Miles = Downgrade
Wood > Gregg = Downgrade
Marquis > Heilman = Downgrade

Jim threw some cash to get a FA (a nice move, and if Bradley plays more than 100 games, I'll be a happy fan).

But otherwise, it's tough to say things are rosy.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Dude.

DeRosa at 34 = Miles/Fontenot (except they're cheaper)

Wood = Gregg in production (and considering health)

Marquis < Heilman - and Heilman costs about $7 mill less.

(and that's playing in your world where those are the only moves)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I didn't include the Gathright and Vizcaino "moves." Sorry, how bereft of me.
-Gregg = Wood? Uh-huh.
-Heilman better than Marquis? Uh...what "world" are <i>you</i> playing in? One where a guy who pitches 100 fewer innings and gives up a run more <i>per</i> inning is more valuable?
-We already had Font. Thus, DeRosa <b>WAY</b> over Miles.

But thanks for playing. Here's you door prize.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You live in a fantasy world.

[Butcher]

Wood ≠ Gregg.

Wood's ERA+ -- 137
Wood's WHIP -- 1.085

Gregg's ERA+ -- 125
Gregg's WHIP -- 1.282

And Gregg pitched 2 more innings than Wood.

I'd say the jury is still out on Fontenot. I like the guy, but 243 ABs is the most he has ever had in the majors, and that was last season. DeRosa is a year older, but do you really expect such a sharp decline from him? I guess we'll see. And Miles? He's a slow, white Juan Pierre.

Marquis' 2008 was better than Heilman's -- he also pitched about 100 more innings than him. Believe me -- I fucking hate Marquis, so it kills me to argue his case, but if Heilman is replacing Marquis, it's a step back.

[Butcher]

<!--quoteo(post=14299:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:00 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14298:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14294:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:51 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14292:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:49 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 28 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14286:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:40 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14285:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:37 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14282:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:23 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14276:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:11 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Peavy (or some other impact player doesn't come our way), then it's the DeRosa deal that is really puzzling. With Bradley looking like our only "big" acquisition this offseason now, it would've been really nice to have DeRosa on board to take his spot in RF for the 50-75 games he misses.
I'll wait until the offseason is over to make a final judgment, but right now it looks like Hendry is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The 2009 Cubs are a sinking ship?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I overshot it a bit with the Titanic reference. But I do think, for all of these moves, we've either taken a step backwards or stayed stationary. A lot of time and energy has been spent on doing what seems like very little.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
with all due respect, i disagree. we lost derosa, but fontenot/miles will fill his spot well. we lost wood, but gregg will take his spot. we lost pie and cedeno and they sucked anyway. bradley is an upgrade and i think heilman is too. where did we take a step back?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, with all due respect:
DeRosa > Miles = Downgrade
Wood > Gregg = Downgrade
Marquis > Heilman = Downgrade

Jim threw some cash to get a FA (a nice move, and if Bradley plays more than 100 games, I'll be a happy fan).

But otherwise, it's tough to say things are rosy.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Dude.

DeRosa at 34 = Miles/Fontenot (except they're cheaper)

Wood = Gregg in production (and considering health)

Marquis < Heilman - and Heilman costs about $7 mill less.

(and that's playing in your world where those are the only moves)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I didn't include the Gathright and Vizcaino "moves." Sorry, how bereft of me.
-Gregg = Wood? Uh-huh.
-Heilman better than Marquis? Uh...what "world" are <i>you</i> playing in? One where a guy who pitches 100 fewer innings and gives up a run more <i>per</i> inning is more valuable?
-We already had Font. Thus, DeRosa <b>WAY</b> over Miles.

But thanks for playing. Here's you door prize.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You live in a fantasy world.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How did I agree with you 10 posts ago and now disagree with you?

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=14289:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:43 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14268:date=Jan 28 2009, 12:54 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i think a lot of you overvalue pie and cedeno. it's entirely possible that what we got fro them is all we were ever gonna get. there was no place on this team for either of them. so we get heilman, who before last year, was a solid middle reliever for 3 years. i don't think we're all that much worse than last year. maybe we're better.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think we're better or worse, but I do think we've made a whole bunch of moves for no reason.

Also, there's no way that I believe that all of these moves were made with the intention of getting Peavy, it's too many moving parts. I just don't realistically see Hendry (or anyone) sitting down and thinking "Hey, I need to trade these 6 or 7 guys and replace them with these 6 or 7 guys in order to get Jake Peavy on my roster." That's just not what's happening here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

then what is happening? if you don't think he's doing it to get peavy, then why? if it doesn't make sense in the context of getting peavy, then how does it make sense in the context of trading just to make trades?

and i loved derosa too. but to me, keeping derosa meant not getting bradley, and lou wanted a lefthanded middle of the order guy. who else were they going to trade to get that?

[savant]

Kb, the price tag on the team I think you are talking about, keep Wood/DeRosa/Marquis and still add the bat in the outfield, would be approaching $170 million.

[ruby23]

Heilman, Bradley, Gregg, Williamson, Viscanio, Patton, Gathright, Miles, Stevens, Archer, Gaub >= DeRosa, Pie, Cedeno, Marquis, Wood, Ceda

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=14301:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:02 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14299:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:00 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14298:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:58 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 28 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14294:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:51 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 01:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14292:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:49 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 28 2009, 02:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14286:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:40 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 01:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14285:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:37 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 01:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14282:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:23 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 28 2009, 01:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14276:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:11 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 28 2009, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Peavy (or some other impact player doesn't come our way), then it's the DeRosa deal that is really puzzling. With Bradley looking like our only "big" acquisition this offseason now, it would've been really nice to have DeRosa on board to take his spot in RF for the 50-75 games he misses.
I'll wait until the offseason is over to make a final judgment, but right now it looks like Hendry is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The 2009 Cubs are a sinking ship?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I overshot it a bit with the Titanic reference. But I do think, for all of these moves, we've either taken a step backwards or stayed stationary. A lot of time and energy has been spent on doing what seems like very little.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
with all due respect, i disagree. we lost derosa, but fontenot/miles will fill his spot well. we lost wood, but gregg will take his spot. we lost pie and cedeno and they sucked anyway. bradley is an upgrade and i think heilman is too. where did we take a step back?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, with all due respect:
DeRosa > Miles = Downgrade
Wood > Gregg = Downgrade
Marquis > Heilman = Downgrade

Jim threw some cash to get a FA (a nice move, and if Bradley plays more than 100 games, I'll be a happy fan).

But otherwise, it's tough to say things are rosy.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Dude.

DeRosa at 34 = Miles/Fontenot (except they're cheaper)

Wood = Gregg in production (and considering health)

Marquis < Heilman - and Heilman costs about $7 mill less.

(and that's playing in your world where those are the only moves)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I didn't include the Gathright and Vizcaino "moves." Sorry, how bereft of me.
-Gregg = Wood? Uh-huh.
-Heilman better than Marquis? Uh...what "world" are <i>you</i> playing in? One where a guy who pitches 100 fewer innings and gives up a run more <i>per</i> inning is more valuable?
-We already had Font. Thus, DeRosa <b>WAY</b> over Miles.

But thanks for playing. Here's you door prize.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You live in a fantasy world.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How did I agree with you 10 posts ago and now disagree with you?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I quoted KB, not you. I'm not disagreeing with you.

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=14304:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:05 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Heilman, Bradley, Gregg, Williamson, Viscanio, Patton, Gathright, Miles, Stevens, Archer, Gaub >= DeRosa, Pie, Cedeno, Marquis, Wood, Ceda<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

wait a minute.....so we agree?

[Fella]

The DeRosa/Miles one is a pretty significant downgrade in my mind, that's the deal that pisses me off most, I still don't understand it. I hope Fontenot gets most of the playing time.

Gregg might be a slight downgrade from Wood but like others said he is a lot cheaper and has a better chance to stay healthy.

I do think Heilman has a good chance to be better than Marquis, he was significantly better in the 3 seasons before this last one and he has never really had a chance to become a starter. He was a good one in the minors and was considered a good prospect so you never know.

Getting Bradley pretty much evens everything out for me. We have different faces but on paper we look about the same.

[Clapp]

Well it wasn't working with the last group. Whatever. Something had to be done. We were going to get swept again in the playoffs and probably still will, but gotta have some change.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=14302:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:02 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14289:date=Jan 28 2009, 01:43 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14268:date=Jan 28 2009, 12:54 PM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->i think a lot of you overvalue pie and cedeno. it's entirely possible that what we got fro them is all we were ever gonna get. there was no place on this team for either of them. so we get heilman, who before last year, was a solid middle reliever for 3 years. i don't think we're all that much worse than last year. maybe we're better.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think we're better or worse, but I do think we've made a whole bunch of moves for no reason.

Also, there's no way that I believe that all of these moves were made with the intention of getting Peavy, it's too many moving parts. I just don't realistically see Hendry (or anyone) sitting down and thinking "Hey, I need to trade these 6 or 7 guys and replace them with these 6 or 7 guys in order to get Jake Peavy on my roster." That's just not what's happening here.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

then what is happening? if you don't think he's doing it to get peavy, then why? if it doesn't make sense in the context of getting peavy, then how does it make sense in the context of trading just to make trades?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You got me, but no sane person shuffles in 12 new faces and ushers out 6 other faces just to make room for 1 guy, that doesn't happen, that's compelte overkill.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=14306:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:06 PM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jan 28 2009, 02:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=14304:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:05 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jan 28 2009, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Heilman, Bradley, Gregg, Williamson, Viscanio, Patton, Gathright, Miles, Stevens, Archer, Gaub >= DeRosa, Pie, Cedeno, Marquis, Wood, Ceda<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

wait a minute.....so we agree?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that we're not worse, I don't for sure if we're better, but we're not worse. I just think there's way, way too much shuffling going on for no good reason though.

[ruby23]

<!--quoteo(post=14307:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:07 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 28 2009, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The DeRosa/Miles one is a pretty significant downgrade in my mind, that's the deal that pisses me off most, I still don't understand it. I hope Fontenot gets most of the playing time.

Gregg might be a slight downgrade from Wood but like others said he is a lot cheaper and has a better chance to stay healthy.

I do think Heilman has a good chance to be better than Marquis, he was significantly better in the 3 seasons before this last one and he has never really had a chance to become a starter. He was a good one in the minors and was considered a good prospect so you never know.

Getting Bradley pretty much evens everything out for me. We have different faces but on paper we look about the same.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. This.

[kbwsb]

<!--quoteo(post=14303:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:02 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ Jan 28 2009, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Kb, the price tag on the team I think you are talking about, keep Wood/DeRosa/Marquis and still add the bat in the outfield, would be approaching $170 million.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But Gregg, Heilman, Bradley, Miles, et al have salaries too. It wouldn't be near 170.

I actually don't think we'll suck. <!--coloro:#48D1CC--><!--/coloro-->But, like almost everyone here, I think we're moving <b>sideways</b><!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc--> (or rearranging deck chairs, or treading water, or making trades just to make trades, or whatever you want to call it). You know...the bumper car thing. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]

[veryzer]

<!--quoteo(post=14307:date=Jan 28 2009, 02:07 PM:name=Fella)-->QUOTE (Fella @ Jan 28 2009, 02:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The DeRosa/Miles one is a pretty significant downgrade in my mind, that's the deal that pisses me off most, I still don't understand it. I hope Fontenot gets most of the playing time.

Gregg might be a slight downgrade from Wood but like others said he is a lot cheaper and has a better chance to stay healthy.

I do think Heilman has a good chance to be better than Marquis, he was significantly better in the 3 seasons before this last one and he has never really had a chance to become a starter. He was a good one in the minors and was considered a good prospect so you never know.

Getting Bradley pretty much evens everything out for me. We have different faces but on paper we look about the same.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

this is why they traded derosa: lou wanted a lefthanded middle of the order guy which means someone had to go. soto? no way. lee? no trade clause. theriot? i guess, but no. ramirez? not a chance. soriano? not with that contract. fukudome? ditto.

so they traded the one right handed hitter they could move. put the mighty might fontenot in his placed and signed bradley.

it sucks, but it's baseball.