Milton Bradley and Cubs agree to deal?

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9244:date=Jan 5 2009, 09:32 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jan 5 2009, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9235:date=Jan 5 2009, 07:55 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 5 2009, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9222:date=Jan 5 2009, 07:01 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The 4 OF FA possibilities (Bradley, Ibanez, Dunn, Abreu) are really not that similar. Bradley has the most talent, but is the least likely to stay on the field. <b>Abreu and Ibanez are terrible fielders, worse than Dunn</b>.
Dunn is by far the youngest, and has been the most durable. He plays 160 games pretty much every year. He's also lost 20 lbs. and begged the Cubs to consider him.

But since he's not coming here, I'll turn my attention to MBradley. He's gonna be fun to watch. He's a fucking great player. He's cheaper than Fuk! I'm excited to see him in the middle of the order.

Just one question: who's going to start the other 60 games in RF?
<!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->(Please, please, please, please, please don't say Miles.)<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not even close.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I don't know about Abreu, but Ibanez is supposedly a complete butcher.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ibanez isn't very good, but he at least has 30 assists in the last 3 seasons. Abreu's still okay, just afraid of the wall. Dunn's on another level.

[BT]

<!--quoteo(post=9250:date=Jan 5 2009, 09:13 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 5 2009, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9244:date=Jan 5 2009, 09:32 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jan 5 2009, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9235:date=Jan 5 2009, 07:55 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 5 2009, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9222:date=Jan 5 2009, 07:01 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The 4 OF FA possibilities (Bradley, Ibanez, Dunn, Abreu) are really not that similar. Bradley has the most talent, but is the least likely to stay on the field. <b>Abreu and Ibanez are terrible fielders, worse than Dunn</b>.
Dunn is by far the youngest, and has been the most durable. He plays 160 games pretty much every year. He's also lost 20 lbs. and begged the Cubs to consider him.

But since he's not coming here, I'll turn my attention to MBradley. He's gonna be fun to watch. He's a fucking great player. He's cheaper than Fuk! I'm excited to see him in the middle of the order.

Just one question: who's going to start the other 60 games in RF?
<!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->(Please, please, please, please, please don't say Miles.)<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not even close.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I don't know about Abreu, but Ibanez is supposedly a complete butcher.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ibanez isn't very good, but he at least has 30 assists in the last 3 seasons. Abreu's still okay, just afraid of the wall. Dunn's on another level.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yeah, but assists don't mean shit. If they do, then "bunny hop" Soriano is pretty good.

You can have a great arm and still be a butcher.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9259:date=Jan 5 2009, 10:26 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jan 5 2009, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9250:date=Jan 5 2009, 09:13 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 5 2009, 09:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9244:date=Jan 5 2009, 09:32 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jan 5 2009, 09:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9235:date=Jan 5 2009, 07:55 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 5 2009, 07:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9222:date=Jan 5 2009, 07:01 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 07:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The 4 OF FA possibilities (Bradley, Ibanez, Dunn, Abreu) are really not that similar. Bradley has the most talent, but is the least likely to stay on the field. <b>Abreu and Ibanez are terrible fielders, worse than Dunn</b>.
Dunn is by far the youngest, and has been the most durable. He plays 160 games pretty much every year. He's also lost 20 lbs. and begged the Cubs to consider him.

But since he's not coming here, I'll turn my attention to MBradley. He's gonna be fun to watch. He's a fucking great player. He's cheaper than Fuk! I'm excited to see him in the middle of the order.

Just one question: who's going to start the other 60 games in RF?
<!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->(Please, please, please, please, please don't say Miles.)<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not even close.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


I don't know about Abreu, but Ibanez is supposedly a complete butcher.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ibanez isn't very good, but he at least has 30 assists in the last 3 seasons. Abreu's still okay, just afraid of the wall. Dunn's on another level.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

yeah, but assists don't mean shit. If they do, then "bunny hop" Soriano is pretty good.

You can have a great arm and still be a butcher.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Like I said, Ibanez isn't very good, he's still better than Dunn.

Ibanez's last 3 years in the outfield:

2006- 2 errors in 314 chances, 994 fielding percentage.
2007- 6 errors in 240 chances, .975 fielding percentage.
2008- 5 errors in 316 chances, .984 fielding percentage.

Dunn's last 3 years in the outfield:
2006- 7 errors in 298 chances, .960 fielding percentage.
2007- 6 errors in 254 chances, .976 fielding percentage.
2008- 8 errors in 252 chances, .968 fielding percentage in left field, .967 in right field.

Career:
Ibanez- .987 in LF, .985 in RF
Dunn- .969 in LF, .963 in RF

And the sad thing is those are just on the plays Dunn can get to. If we want to bring range into it, and add in Ibanez's arm in comparison, it's really not close.

[kbwsb]

When dealing with players as old as Ibanez, it's not relevant to factor in how he did years ago. His age has a major effect on his fielding, especially his range. Yeah, he had decent range in 2006.
In 2006, Alf stole 41 bases. Think either of them are gonna match those '06 performances next season?

Go look up the grades by The Fielding Bible for last year. Ibanez was the 3rd worst LFer in baseball according to their unbelievably thorough analysis. Worse than Manny. Dunn wasn't even listed in 2008 as being one of the bad LFers (although he <i>was</i> near the top/bottom of that list in previous years.)

It's a moot point as far as the Cubs are concerned. But I'd rather have the 28 year old, improving-with-the-glove Dunn in the field than the 37 year-old, quickly slipping Ibanez.

[kbwsb]

Go Milton Bradley, GO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rok]

<!--quoteo(post=9268:date=Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When dealing with players as old as Ibanez, it's not relevant to factor in how he did years ago. His age has a major effect on his fielding, especially his range. yeah, he had decent range in 2006. In 2006, Alf stole 41 bases. Think either of them are gonna match their '06 numbers next season?

Go look up the grades by The Fielding Bible for last year. Ibanez was the 3rd worst LFer in baseball according to their unbelievably thorough analysis. Worse than Manny. Dunn wasn't even listed in 2008 as being one of the bad LFers (although he <i>was</i> near the top/bottom of that list in previous years.)

It's a moot point as far as the Cubs are concerned. But I'd rather have the 28 year old, improving-with-the-glove Dunn in the field than the 37 year-old, quickly slipping Ibanez.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't recall a time where Dunn was improving with the glove and especially not enough to move over to RF.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9268:date=Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When dealing with players as old as Ibanez, it's not relevant to factor in how he did years ago. His age has a major effect on his fielding, especially his range. yeah, he had decent range in 2006. In 2006, Alf stole 41 bases. Think either of them are gonna match their '06 numbers next season?

Go look up the grades by The Fielding Bible for last year. Ibanez was the 3rd worst LFer in baseball according to their unbelievably thorough analysis. Worse than Manny. Dunn wasn't even listed in 2008 as being one of the bad LFers (although he <i>was</i> near the top/bottom of that list in previous years.)

It's a moot point as far as the Cubs are concerned. But I'd rather have the 28 year old, improving-with-the-glove Dunn in the field than the 37 year-old, quickly slipping Ibanez.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Adam Dunn is one of the worst outfielders I've ever seen, and the worst starting outfielder defensively in the game today. I don't care about the all holy fielding bibles' analysis of him. Frankly, I don't know how you can do much worse than having 8 errors in 140 games in the outfield, have just 5 assists, not be able to get to anything that's not hit right at you, and not be considered the worst or at least one of the worst outfielders in the league. And he's not improving out there, that's why people want him to be a DH or first baseman.

And Ibanez is "quickly slipping"? Okay [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif[/img] . I think he's fully capable of matching his 06 numbers, especially since he'll be going to a hitter's park behind guys that actually get on base. It's not like his last 2 seasons were bad.

By the way, Alf's basestealing isn't down so much because of his ability, it's because he got hurt and doesn't go 100% all the time anymore. That's his biggest problem in the outfield. He has the speed, it just looks like he's afraid to use it. I think it's all in his head now.

[Destined]

<!--quoteo(post=9146:date=Jan 5 2009, 02:32 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jan 5 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Harden and Bradley will become great friends.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Can we put both of them in a bubble?

[biggz]

I hope this deal has a lot of incentives and isn't a straight up 3/$30M deal. I don't mind Bradley, as long as he is healthy for the playoffs and he doesn't shit his pants when we get there. I'll just pray that Z and him don't have a bad game on the same day... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/explode.gif[/img]

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9280:date=Jan 6 2009, 02:17 AM:name=biggz)-->QUOTE (biggz @ Jan 6 2009, 02:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hope this deal has a lot of incentives and isn't a straight up 3/$30M deal. I don't mind Bradley, as long as he is healthy for the playoffs and he doesn't shit his pants when we get there. I'll just pray that Z and him don't have a bad game on the same day... [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/explode.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. Speaking of him and Z, I wonder which one Sullivan's going to like more. I can already see the shit dripping down Sullivan's Lord of the Rings legs when he first interviews Bradley.

[kbwsb]

<!--quoteo(post=9273:date=Jan 6 2009, 12:01 AM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 6 2009, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9268:date=Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When dealing with players as old as Ibanez, it's not relevant to factor in how he did years ago. His age has a major effect on his fielding, especially his range. yeah, he had decent range in 2006. In 2006, Alf stole 41 bases. Think either of them are gonna match their '06 numbers next season?

Go look up the grades by The Fielding Bible for last year. Ibanez was the 3rd worst LFer in baseball according to their unbelievably thorough analysis. Worse than Manny. Dunn wasn't even listed in 2008 as being one of the bad LFers (although he <i>was</i> near the top/bottom of that list in previous years.)

It's a moot point as far as the Cubs are concerned. But I'd rather have the 28 year old, improving-with-the-glove Dunn in the field than the 37 year-old, quickly slipping Ibanez.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->Adam Dunn is one of the worst outfielders<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>I've</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> ever <b><!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo-->seen<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--></b>, and the worst starting outfielder defensively in the game today. <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>I don't care</b> <b>about</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->the all holy fielding bibles'<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>analysis</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->of him<!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's all you needed to say.

[DaveB]

<!--quoteo(post=9268:date=Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->But I'd rather have the 28 year old, improving-with-the-glove Dunn in the field<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

I'm going to have to agree with Clapp on this one, Adam Dunn is one of the worst outfielders in the game. Say what you want about Ibanez, but whether Ibanez does, or ever did, field well doesn't change the fact that Dunn is about as bad as you can get.

Just because some Holy shitbomb fielding bible doesn't have him listed as the worst doesn't mean we have to start treating him as the improving-with-the-glove-second-coming-of-Willie-Mays in the outfield.

[AlexV]

<!--quoteo(post=9280:date=Jan 6 2009, 01:17 AM:name=biggz)-->QUOTE (biggz @ Jan 6 2009, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hope this deal has a lot of incentives and isn't a straight up 3/$30M deal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

They're working on an option that would somehow protect us if he doesn't play certain amount of games of the season. I read it somewere I can't remember.

[Clapp]

<!--quoteo(post=9285:date=Jan 6 2009, 03:52 AM:name=AlexV)-->QUOTE (AlexV @ Jan 6 2009, 03:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9280:date=Jan 6 2009, 01:17 AM:name=biggz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (biggz @ Jan 6 2009, 01:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I hope this deal has a lot of incentives and isn't a straight up 3/$30M deal.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

They're working on an option that would somehow protect us if he doesn't play certain amount of games of the season. I read it somewere I can't remember.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good.

[bz]

<!--quoteo(post=9283:date=Jan 6 2009, 01:39 AM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 6 2009, 01:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9273:date=Jan 6 2009, 12:01 AM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 6 2009, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9268:date=Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 5 2009, 11:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->When dealing with players as old as Ibanez, it's not relevant to factor in how he did years ago. His age has a major effect on his fielding, especially his range. yeah, he had decent range in 2006. In 2006, Alf stole 41 bases. Think either of them are gonna match their '06 numbers next season?

Go look up the grades by The Fielding Bible for last year. Ibanez was the 3rd worst LFer in baseball according to their unbelievably thorough analysis. Worse than Manny. Dunn wasn't even listed in 2008 as being one of the bad LFers (although he <i>was</i> near the top/bottom of that list in previous years.)

It's a moot point as far as the Cubs are concerned. But I'd rather have the 28 year old, improving-with-the-glove Dunn in the field than the 37 year-old, quickly slipping Ibanez.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->Adam Dunn is one of the worst outfielders<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>I've</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> ever <b><!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo-->seen<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--></b>, and the worst starting outfielder defensively in the game today. <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>I don't care</b> <b>about</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->the all holy fielding bibles'<!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:6--><!--/sizeo--><b>analysis</b><!--sizec--><!--/sizec--> <!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->of him<!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's all you needed to say.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Do we need to do this again? Do we <i>really</i> need to do this again? Cause I PWNED your ass last time.

Shall I mention that almost ALL defensive stats are mostly for shit? No, I shouldn't. So let's take defensive stats into account. Ok fine we will. For them to be relevant we, of course, need context. Well what context might be involved in defending in baseball? Well each time a ball is put into play there is a different context. Ok fine. No play is the same as any other. Well what makes each play different and creates a new, dynamic context? Well it just so happens to be the different variables in each context. What could these variable be? Well there are infinite variables. Well what do we have to go on to judge a players ability as a defensiveman? Hmm...let's see...how about reading the ball off the bat...ok, then there is the field you play in, the speed of the player, his range (pretty much a combination of the previous three,) the pitchers on the players team, the surrounding defense on said team, the shifts used by the coaching staff, the weather/field conditions, the players ability to throw the ball both fast and with accuracy, the players ability to play a ball correctly off the wall, the players abilitiy to play with the wall in their vicinity...fucking a million different variables that contribute to a specific players defensive ability. So what does that mean? It means that their are too many instance-specific circumstances surrounding each individual ball put into play for ANYONE to quantify a players defensive ability with statistics.

So what are we left with?

Generally vague statistics and our eyes.