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My big question regards Z health, it just seems that he hasn't been right for a while.
Regarding the move to the bullpen, I thought he would be used as a 2 - 3 inning reliever pitching 6th, 7th, 8th every 3 - 5th day to keep him relatively stretched out to return to a starter role. Guess that was just a bit too unconventional for Larry and Lou. At the time, Cubs were giving up tones of runs in these innings and Lilly was just getting his arm stretched out.
Z has shown that he has the talent to be an ace. Yeah, he's bat shit crazy but he has drive, passion and talent. There aren't more than 3 or 4 players on this Cubs team that have those traits.
Hope Z pulls his shit together and helps this team soon but I don't have high expectations.
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<!--quoteo(post=107379:date=Jul 22 2010, 06:56 PM:name=1060Ivy)-->QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Jul 22 2010, 06:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->My big question regards Z health, it just seems that he hasn't been right for a while.
Regarding the move to the bullpen, I thought he would be used as a 2 - 3 inning reliever pitching 6th, 7th, 8th every 3 - 5th day to keep him relatively stretched out to return to a starter role. Guess that was just a bit too unconventional for Larry and Lou. At the time, Cubs were giving up tones of runs in these innings and Lilly was just getting his arm stretched out.
Z has shown that he has the talent to be an ace. Yeah, he's bat shit crazy but he has drive, passion and talent. There aren't more than 3 or 4 players on this Cubs team that have those traits.
Hope Z pulls his shit together and helps this team soon but I don't have high expectations.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo.
I suspect he hasn't been healthy ever since sometime in 2008. His mechanics have been all over the place, so that tells me something has been wrong for a long time now. Now, who should be blamed for this is another story.
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<!--quoteo(post=107253:date=Jul 22 2010, 12:45 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 22 2010, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Before the bullpen lunacy, Zambrano started 4 games and went at least 5 innings in 3 out of the 4 starts. He also gave up 3 earned runs or less in 3 out of the 4 starts.
People talking about how he was killing the bullpen and killing the team at the start of the season have no idea what they're talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, and he wasn't all that bad last year either.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=107433:date=Jul 23 2010, 06:24 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jul 23 2010, 06:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107253:date=Jul 22 2010, 12:45 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Jul 22 2010, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Before the bullpen lunacy, Zambrano started 4 games and went at least 5 innings in 3 out of the 4 starts. He also gave up 3 earned runs or less in 3 out of the 4 starts.
People talking about how he was killing the bullpen and killing the team at the start of the season have no idea what they're talking about.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, and he wasn't all that bad last year either.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, and why people refuse to admit that is very peculiar to me. They always bring up that he didn't put up "ace" numbers, but I'm not sure I understand what the argument is.
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Probably because the "ace" of the staff shouldnt be regressing during his peak years.
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<!--quoteo(post=107460:date=Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Probably because the "ace" of the staff shouldnt be regressing during his peak years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So just give up on the guy altogether after all these years? Do we have that much of a surplus of pitching where we can't allow one guy with an actual track record some time to work his shit out or make sure that he isn't hurting more than he lets on? I'm not defending his behavior at all, but I have a hard time believing that had any of our other SPs been jerked around like he's been the minute their performance suffered, that they'd be happy about it and deal with it professionally. Even Gorzelanny started crying when they moved him in and out of the rotation, and he by all accounts isn't insane.
Again, as much as we complain about him, Z has never had a poor season (and that includes 2009) until now.
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The guy is a mental midget and that is his biggest problem. Hurt or not, his mechanics have been out of wack for the last couple of seasons and into this one...just all over the place. His velocity is way down and his fast ball is on a rope that hitters just blast off on...so is he more hurt/beat down physically than anyone knows? Possibly, but this has been going on awhile. He had a not so great 2009 and a bad spring, how much longer do you give him to tirn it around?
I would love to sit here and think that the guy can get over these demons, hit 92-94 on the gun and kick ass, but his act is old and he isn't giving any sort of ROI on that contract. I hope the first chance they have they dump him. Question is will that chance ever come about?
Dylan McKay is my hero
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But here's an interesting idea...albeit completely improbable. With all this manager speak, say the team holds on to Z...does it make sense to go after LaRussa with both barrels in the hopes that he is a package with Duncan? Duncan is a witch with pitchers, and I can only imagine him getting his hand on Z. Now that combo makes sense as far fetched as it is.
Anyway, random thought that just crept in...I think IF the team decides to keep Z, a new pitching coach is definitely needed...he and Rothschild don't seem to be on the same page anymore.
Dylan McKay is my hero
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<!--quoteo(post=107472:date=Jul 23 2010, 09:50 AM:name=willis)-->QUOTE (willis @ Jul 23 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The guy is a mental midget and that is his biggest problem. Hurt or not, his mechanics have been out of wack for the last couple of seasons and into this one...just all over the place. His velocity is way down and his fast ball is on a rope that hitters just blast off on...so is he more hurt/beat down physically than anyone knows? Possibly, but this has been going on awhile. He had a not so great 2009 and a bad spring, how much longer do you give him to tirn it around?
I would love to sit here and think that the guy can get over these demons, hit 92-94 on the gun and kick ass, but his act is old and he isn't giving any sort of ROI on that contract. I hope the first chance they have they dump him. Question is will that chance ever come about?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd want the organization to try to get to the bottom of what is wrong with him (injury, whatever) aside from his lack of sanity and anger issues before just dumping the guy for pennies on the dollar. A 29 year old pitcher is not my idea of someone who should be looked upon as over the hill and unfixable. Maybe the team has explored all options with him, I have no idea, but if the problems with his mechanics and loss of velocity continues, then I'm guessing that there is an injury problem that is still undetected. Trotting him out there only to get lit up every other game helps no one, especially a guy who is always on the verge of ripping someone's head off at the drop of a hat. He's an investment, and he should be treated like one, not a science project gone wrong.
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<!--quoteo(post=107465:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:23 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jul 23 2010, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107460:date=Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Probably because the "ace" of the staff shouldnt be regressing during his peak years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So just give up on the guy altogether after all these years? Do we have that much of a surplus of pitching where we can't allow one guy with an actual track record some time to work his shit out or make sure that he isn't hurting more than he lets on? I'm not defending his behavior at all, but I have a hard time believing that had any of our other SPs been jerked around like he's been the minute their performance suffered, that they'd be happy about it and deal with it professionally. Even Gorzelanny started crying when they moved him in and out of the rotation, and he by all accounts isn't insane.
Again, as much as we complain about him, Z has never had a poor season (and that includes 2009) until now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can say he's never had a poor season, but the reality is that he's gotten progressively worse since signing his last contract. He is not pitching like an ace, and he's getting paid like one. I was at his opening day start this year. He had a call that didn't go his way, and then he mentally shut it down after that. It was embarrassing, and not what you would expect from a "front of the rotation" guy.
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<!--quoteo(post=107474:date=Jul 23 2010, 09:57 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jul 23 2010, 09:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107472:date=Jul 23 2010, 09:50 AM:name=willis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (willis @ Jul 23 2010, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The guy is a mental midget and that is his biggest problem. Hurt or not, his mechanics have been out of wack for the last couple of seasons and into this one...just all over the place. His velocity is way down and his fast ball is on a rope that hitters just blast off on...so is he more hurt/beat down physically than anyone knows? Possibly, but this has been going on awhile. He had a not so great 2009 and a bad spring, how much longer do you give him to tirn it around?
I would love to sit here and think that the guy can get over these demons, hit 92-94 on the gun and kick ass, but his act is old and he isn't giving any sort of ROI on that contract. I hope the first chance they have they dump him. Question is will that chance ever come about?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd want the organization to try to get to the bottom of what is wrong with him (injury, whatever) aside from his lack of sanity and anger issues before just dumping the guy for pennies on the dollar. A 29 year old pitcher is not my idea of someone who should be looked upon as over the hill and unfixable. Maybe the team has explored all options with him, I have no idea, but if the problems with his mechanics and loss of velocity continues, then I'm guessing that there is an injury problem that is still undetected. Trotting him out there only to get lit up every other game helps no one, especially a guy who is always on the verge of ripping someone's head off at the drop of a hat. He's an investment, and he should be treated like one, not a science project gone wrong.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What rok said.
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A. He's always been a headcase.
B. How does a team properly respond when an expensive, talented pitcher is having mechanical problems.
C. LaRussa? No.
D. LaRussa? FUCK NO.
E. Rothschilds is fine.
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<!--quoteo(post=107476:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:00 AM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ Jul 23 2010, 10:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107465:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:23 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jul 23 2010, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=107460:date=Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM:name=Coach)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 09:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Probably because the "ace" of the staff shouldnt be regressing during his peak years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So just give up on the guy altogether after all these years? Do we have that much of a surplus of pitching where we can't allow one guy with an actual track record some time to work his shit out or make sure that he isn't hurting more than he lets on? I'm not defending his behavior at all, but I have a hard time believing that had any of our other SPs been jerked around like he's been the minute their performance suffered, that they'd be happy about it and deal with it professionally. Even Gorzelanny started crying when they moved him in and out of the rotation, and he by all accounts isn't insane.
Again, as much as we complain about him, Z has never had a poor season (and that includes 2009) until now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can say he's never had a poor season, but the reality is that he's gotten progressively worse since signing his last contract. He is not pitching like an ace, and he's getting paid like one. I was at his opening day start this year. He had a call that didn't go his way, and then he mentally shut it down after that. It was embarrassing, and not what you would expect from a "front of the rotation" guy.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People love to bring up evidence like this as if it explains anything. That doesn't help anyone figure out what is actually wrong with the guy. If there is a trend, I want to know what (in his arm or shoulder not his head) is causing him to not live up to people's expectations. I know he hasn't been great, but to say that he's been terrible just because he hasn't lived up to what you or anyone else (myself included) expects out of him, doesn't really mean a whole lot when you put things into perspective. Fix him. That's all I care about. If you can't then we need to send him elsewhere.
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Yeah, let's take the blame off Zambrano. He obviously hasn't caused any of this downward spiral.
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<!--quoteo(post=107492:date=Jul 23 2010, 10:33 AM:name=Coach)-->QUOTE (Coach @ Jul 23 2010, 10:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, let's take the blame off Zambrano. He obviously hasn't caused any of this downward spiral.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, seriously if you interpreted that as me deflecting blame off of him when he clearly hasn't looked physically right for some time and after I've said multiple times that he is nuts, then there is no need to continue this discussion. Wanting to get to the bottom of his mechanical problems is not making excuses for his acting like a douche.
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