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<!--quoteo(post=103316:date=Jun 27 2010, 08:28 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 27 2010, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this. There has been a huge amount of expectation for the Cubs for almost a decade and when players have those expectations put on them and they fail, things like this are going to happen.
You're right, it doesn't happen to other teams. What other team has such huge expectations and is as consistently inconsistent?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Zambrano incident is just the latest evidence that this franchise is leaderless. Ricketts needs to step in and clean house beginning with Hendry and Piniella. Zambrano is the least of his problems and is just the lightning rod of the moment.
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<!--quoteo(post=103316:date=Jun 27 2010, 08:28 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 27 2010, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this. There has been a huge amount of expectation for the Cubs for almost a decade and when players have those expectations put on them and they fail, things like this are going to happen.
You're right, it doesn't happen to other teams. What other team has such huge expectations and is as consistently inconsistent?<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you happy with the way the Cubs have handled these incidents over the last few years? Honestly, I'm not sure this has that much to do with expectations. I think that at least in the case of Zambrano, and Bradley last year, they are just crazy fucks who are destined to have problems. It just seems like there is a pattern of signing crazy fucks to big contracts, crazy fucks acting crazy, and then management being like, "Holy shit, that is one crazy motherfucker! We can't have crazy fucks like that on the team!.......Uh....Anyone want a batshit crazy, totally impossible to deal with player?"
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<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the people who don't see a pattern of mismanagement are missing the point.
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<!--quoteo(post=103315:date=Jun 27 2010, 08:12 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Jun 27 2010, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103314:date=Jun 27 2010, 08:08 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 27 2010, 08:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103313:date=Jun 27 2010, 07:57 PM:name=Lance)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lance @ Jun 27 2010, 07:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103304:date=Jun 27 2010, 08:32 PM:name=dk123)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dk123 @ Jun 27 2010, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The more I think about this, the more I think it is an organizational problem. In addition to the players Ruby mentioned, there was also the whole thing with Steve Stone. I am not defending Zambrano's actions, but it seems that there has been a pattern of an inability to deal with difficult or struggling players well over the last several years. Ultimately, the blame falls on Hendry and whoever has been the manager at the time. Hendry is signing these people, and then, when shit happens, it becomes way too public. When a player underperforms, it is obvious to everyone...it's not something you can hide. However, you can deal with these problems in a less public manner, instead of blowing them up to the press. I think that Hendry and Pinella have acted just as childishly as Zambrano in a way. Also, its hard for me to believe that there aren't a ton of difficult personalities all over the league. I think dealing with these personalities is part of the territory of the way the league is now, with long term guaranteed contracts, and such. Mt feeling is that guys like Hendry and Pinella are sort of old school, but when the players are really the ones running the show, that doesn't seem to work that well. Sure there are guys like Bobby Cox, but I have a feeling, that in spite of seeming a hard ass, his ability to manage personalities is pretty damn good. I really think a GM/Manager change is needed way more than dumping players.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with the musician.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly where I'm at.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Me too. And I think it's time for Ricketts to fire Hendry.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed 100%.
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=103306:date=Jun 27 2010, 05:36 PM:name=funkster)-->QUOTE (funkster @ Jun 27 2010, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I saw somewhere that Zambrano told a Suntimes reporter that he only did it to fire the team up and that Lee took it personally....that he was misunderstood.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My initial take watching it was that he was sort of ranting about everything and anything, so I could almost buy that, but as Ace and Kid pointed out, why would the teammates react the way they have if there wasn't a pattern? Even if he did somehow mean it to fire up the team, you can't give your teammates that much "you screwed up" attitude over that many years and then not expect it to be taken in the wrong way.
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<!--quoteo(post=103327:date=Jun 27 2010, 09:25 PM:name=MrSheps)-->QUOTE (MrSheps @ Jun 27 2010, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103306:date=Jun 27 2010, 05:36 PM:name=funkster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (funkster @ Jun 27 2010, 05:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I saw somewhere that Zambrano told a Suntimes reporter that he only did it to fire the team up and that Lee took it personally....that he was misunderstood.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My initial take watching it was that he was sort of ranting about everything and anything, so I could almost buy that, but as Ace and Kid pointed out, why would the teammates react the way they have if there wasn't a pattern? Even if he did somehow mean it to fire up the team, you can't give your teammates that much "you screwed up" attitude over that many years and then not expect it to be taken in the wrong way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not 100% in the Z is all to blame camp, but I am also done defending him at this point. The Suntimes quotes seem to me to be damage control plain and simple from Z's agent. Maybe if his people leak some story where Z is misunderstood, it will make trading him slightly more palatable to other teams, but I'm trying to find something positive right now.
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On the Score a few minutes ago, Stone suggested that we move Z to 1B and groom him to be DLee's successor. He was being serious too.
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<!--quoteo(post=103348:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:23 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jun 28 2010, 09:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->On the Score a few minutes ago, Stone suggested that we move Z to 1B and groom him to be DLee's successor. He was being serious too.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hard to imagine that he never got a GM job in all those years of begging for one.
This is not some silly theory that's unsupported and deserves being mocked by photos of Xena. ![[Image: ITgoyeg.png]](http://i.imgur.com/ITgoyeg.png)
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<!--quoteo(post=103320:date=Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the people who don't see a pattern of mismanagement are missing the point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My problem with this is people keep saying "mismanagement by the Cubs". There has been a great number of people that have been included in Cubs decision making. We've had three different people/entities that owned the Cubs in the time frame you're talking about. Two different managers. Two presidents of baseball operations. Also, plenty of other positions have been rotated around. You seem to be placing blame on a Cubs organization that has not been the same Cubs organization.
The only constant that I can see is Hendry. Maybe he's the one causing these guys to act out. Feel free to say so, but you're just pointing your finger in a vague direction though when you say the Cubs as an organization is at fault.
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<!--quoteo(post=103351:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103320:date=Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the people who don't see a pattern of mismanagement are missing the point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My problem with this is people keep saying "mismanagement by the Cubs". There has been a great number of people that have been included in Cubs decision making. We've had three different people/entities that owned the Cubs in the time frame you're talking about. Two different managers. Two presidents of baseball operations. Also, plenty of other positions have been rotated around. You seem to be placing blame on a Cubs organization that has not been the same Cubs organization.
The only constant that I can see is Hendry. Maybe he's the one causing these guys to act out. Feel free to say so, but you're just pointing your finger in a vague direction though when you say the Cubs as an organization is at fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scarey, you're Ricketts, how do fix this? What's your plan? Every time someone suggests that Hendry or Lou be fired, every time soeone criticizes the organization, every time someone suggests change, you're the first one to defend Hendry/Lou/Cubs.
So I ask you, if you're the Ricketts family, how do you get this back on track?
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=103354:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:47 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 28 2010, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103351:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103320:date=Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the people who don't see a pattern of mismanagement are missing the point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My problem with this is people keep saying "mismanagement by the Cubs". There has been a great number of people that have been included in Cubs decision making. We've had three different people/entities that owned the Cubs in the time frame you're talking about. Two different managers. Two presidents of baseball operations. Also, plenty of other positions have been rotated around. You seem to be placing blame on a Cubs organization that has not been the same Cubs organization.
The only constant that I can see is Hendry. Maybe he's the one causing these guys to act out. Feel free to say so, but you're just pointing your finger in a vague direction though when you say the Cubs as an organization is at fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scarey, you're Ricketts, how do fix this? What's your plan? Every time someone suggests that Hendry or Lou be fired, every time soeone criticizes the organization, every time someone suggests change, you're the first one to defend Hendry/Lou/Cubs.
So I ask you, if you're the Ricketts family, how do you get this back on track?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've already advocated a new manager and GM for next season. Numerous times.
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<!--quoteo(post=103355:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:52 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103354:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:47 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 28 2010, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103351:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103320:date=Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the people who don't see a pattern of mismanagement are missing the point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My problem with this is people keep saying "mismanagement by the Cubs". There has been a great number of people that have been included in Cubs decision making. We've had three different people/entities that owned the Cubs in the time frame you're talking about. Two different managers. Two presidents of baseball operations. Also, plenty of other positions have been rotated around. You seem to be placing blame on a Cubs organization that has not been the same Cubs organization.
The only constant that I can see is Hendry. Maybe he's the one causing these guys to act out. Feel free to say so, but you're just pointing your finger in a vague direction though when you say the Cubs as an organization is at fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scarey, you're Ricketts, how do fix this? What's your plan? Every time someone suggests that Hendry or Lou be fired, every time soeone criticizes the organization, every time someone suggests change, you're the first one to defend Hendry/Lou/Cubs.
So I ask you, if you're the Ricketts family, how do you get this back on track?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've already advocated a new manager and GM for next season. Numerous times.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why do you defend the manager and the GM every time someone rips them? The very manager and GM you want fired....
Wang.
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<!--quoteo(post=103356:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:55 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 28 2010, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103355:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:52 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103354:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:47 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 28 2010, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103351:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103320:date=Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the people who don't see a pattern of mismanagement are missing the point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My problem with this is people keep saying "mismanagement by the Cubs". There has been a great number of people that have been included in Cubs decision making. We've had three different people/entities that owned the Cubs in the time frame you're talking about. Two different managers. Two presidents of baseball operations. Also, plenty of other positions have been rotated around. You seem to be placing blame on a Cubs organization that has not been the same Cubs organization.
The only constant that I can see is Hendry. Maybe he's the one causing these guys to act out. Feel free to say so, but you're just pointing your finger in a vague direction though when you say the Cubs as an organization is at fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scarey, you're Ricketts, how do fix this? What's your plan? Every time someone suggests that Hendry or Lou be fired, every time soeone criticizes the organization, every time someone suggests change, you're the first one to defend Hendry/Lou/Cubs.
So I ask you, if you're the Ricketts family, how do you get this back on track?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've already advocated a new manager and GM for next season. Numerous times.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why do you defend the manager and the GM every time someone rips them? The very manager and GM you want fired....
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because I don't find it necessary to go to the extreme of putting our current manager down, saying he's senile, crazy, or doesn't care in order to advocate a change.
I also find it difficult to criticize decisions after the matter when the decision was almost universally accepted when they were made. When I see people criticizing the Zambrano contract for instance, I personally cannot speak out about it because I and many others felt it was a good deal at the time.
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I didn't have any problem with the Z deal at the time either, and get a little tired of the media making shit up to prove some point. I consistently defended Z until this recent outburst, but criticized how he was handled this season. There is plenty of blame to go around.
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<!--quoteo(post=103360:date=Jun 28 2010, 09:29 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103356:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:55 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 28 2010, 08:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103355:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:52 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103354:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:47 AM:name=veryzer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (veryzer @ Jun 28 2010, 08:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103351:date=Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Jun 28 2010, 08:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=103320:date=Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jun 27 2010, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->I think the people trying to put together a huge list of problems the Cubs have had are looking too much into this.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the people who don't see a pattern of mismanagement are missing the point.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My problem with this is people keep saying "mismanagement by the Cubs". There has been a great number of people that have been included in Cubs decision making. We've had three different people/entities that owned the Cubs in the time frame you're talking about. Two different managers. Two presidents of baseball operations. Also, plenty of other positions have been rotated around. You seem to be placing blame on a Cubs organization that has not been the same Cubs organization.
The only constant that I can see is Hendry. Maybe he's the one causing these guys to act out. Feel free to say so, but you're just pointing your finger in a vague direction though when you say the Cubs as an organization is at fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Scarey, you're Ricketts, how do fix this? What's your plan? Every time someone suggests that Hendry or Lou be fired, every time soeone criticizes the organization, every time someone suggests change, you're the first one to defend Hendry/Lou/Cubs.
So I ask you, if you're the Ricketts family, how do you get this back on track?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've already advocated a new manager and GM for next season. Numerous times.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then why do you defend the manager and the GM every time someone rips them? The very manager and GM you want fired....
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because I don't find it necessary to go to the extreme of putting our current manager down, saying he's senile, crazy, or doesn't care in order to advocate a change.
I also find it difficult to criticize decisions after the matter when the decision was almost universally accepted when they were made. When I see people criticizing the Zambrano contract for instance, I personally cannot speak out about it because I and many others felt it was a good deal at the time.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I don't remember seeing a whole lot of people complaining about Zambrano's contract. What I do see is people complaining about the number of outbursts this team has had since Hendry has been the GM and his poor handling of these outbursts. This complaining is warranted.
Wang.
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