+- Sons of Ivy (https://sonsofivy.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Chicago Cubs (https://sonsofivy.com/forum/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Friendly Confines (https://sonsofivy.com/forum/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: Joe Beimel for LOOGY? (/thread-7608.html)
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - kbwsb - 03-09-2009
Is there anyone here who's really confident with Neil Cotts being our only lefty in the pen?
Me neither.
For some reason Beimel is still searching for a team, despite the fact that he was damn good last year (5-1 2.02 ERA). An ERA+ of 210.
Yes, I'm very aware that those stats are always skewed for relief pitchers (and especially LOOGY's), but at least it shows that he can be pretty effective. His WHIP ain't that great, so maybe he's not the answer.
But he's certainly better than Cotts, and considering that it's March 9th, he might be desperate to sign somewhere. Thus, we could get a quick and easy upgrade, and likely for cheap. Plus, we don't have to put up with Will Ohman's crap (he's also still available, though I highly doubt he's ever going to be invited back).
Thoughts on swiping one of Gad's boys?
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - ruby23 - 03-09-2009
When you have 2 LHP in the rotation, the need to have more than 1 lefty reliever is significantly diminished, just sayin'.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Ace - 03-09-2009
I wish there was a more clear spot for a LOOGY.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Fella - 03-09-2009
I'm not convinced Biemel is even a real good pitcher. It seems like almost all relievers have a huge jump in success when they go to Dodger stadium and then struggle after again if they sucked before, and he did.
He also as KB stated had a poor whip and opp BA last year and his overall career whip and opp BA is pretty bad for a reliever.
Plus the splits
Career ERA at Dodger Stadium: 2.58
Career ERA everywhere else: 4.77
and he is not really a LOOGY anyway, so yeah, I'll pass.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - bz - 03-09-2009
LOOGY's are the most worthless thing ever
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - rok - 03-09-2009
Give me a RH reliever that gets both LH and RH hitters out any day of the week.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Brock - 03-09-2009
<!--quoteo(post=22544:date=Mar 9 2009, 12:13 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Mar 9 2009, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->LOOGY's are the most worthless thing ever<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's easy to say that but managers believe in them and we're going to have a LHP in the bullpen. Why not at least try to make it a good one (i.e. not Cotts)?
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Gad - 03-09-2009
Your good buddy Will Ohman was actually quite a bit better than Beimel last year. Especially in a loogy role. Beimel's BA allowed to lefties was .278. Not particularly good and definitely not good for a loogy(He was actually better against righties than lefties).
Ohman on the other hand only allowed a .200 average to left handed hitters...
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Brock - 03-09-2009
I was reading somewhere recently that Samardzija was actually way better against lefties than against righties last season, for whatever that's worth. Hopefully if that's the case and the trend continues he'll be used against tough lefties more so than Cotts.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - kbwsb - 03-09-2009
<!--quoteo(post=22544:date=Mar 9 2009, 12:13 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Mar 9 2009, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->LOOGY's are the most worthless thing ever<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm willing to listen to your reasoning. Are you saying that any and all "situational' relief pitchers are worthless? Are you questioning the platoon effect?
I don't have strong feelings either way on the subject, but common sense would seem to indicate:
-there is a definite platoon advantage that exists in baseball, and having a good lefty reliever would be similarly valuable to having a good lefty bat off the bench.
-throughout history, and continuing to the present, there have been disproportionate numbers of excellent lefty hitters in baseball.
-for a number of reasons, not all of them agreed upon, lefty hitters statistically do significantly worse against lefty pitchers than righty hitters do against righty hitters.
-as we've seen countless times, all at bats in a game are not evenly weighted.
For instance, if we're playing the Pirates, which batting situation is more important:
1-their weak-hitting SS, batting 8th, comes up with 2 outs and nobody on in the 2nd inning.
2-Nate McClouth, a lefty, comes up with the bases loaded in the 8th inning of a tie ballgame?
Obviously it's #2. Now say that McClouth hits .310 against righties, and .230 against lefties.
How is it worthless to bring in a lefty to pitch to him? It would seem to actually have a ton of worth to bring in a lefty specialist there.
Even to turn around a switch-hitter has huge value. Chipper Jones and Lance Berkman are good hitters from both sides, but they're both FAR better from the lefty side. (for example, Berkman's career Slugging percentage as a lefty is over .600 (think Ted Williams or Manny Ramirez) and as a righty is .423 (think Reed Johnson). Who would you rather face in a critical situation, Reed Johnson or Ted Williams?
If I'm missing something, and I very well may be, please point it out.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Clapp - 03-09-2009
<!--quoteo(post=22568:date=Mar 9 2009, 12:39 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Mar 9 2009, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I was reading somewhere recently that Samardzija was actually way better against lefties than against righties last season, for whatever that's worth. Hopefully if that's the case and the trend continues he'll be used against tough lefties more so than Cotts.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably from me here... I've posted those numbers a few times and the numbers of the rest of our right-handers against lefties, which are all very good except for Vizcaino(and Lou realizes this). Shark's good against lefties because he throws that tailing Maddux two-seamer that looks like it's going to hit them and ends up being a strike, and because of his splitter.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Brock - 03-09-2009
<!--quoteo(post=22575:date=Mar 9 2009, 02:46 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Mar 9 2009, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=22568:date=Mar 9 2009, 12:39 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Mar 9 2009, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I was reading somewhere recently that Samardzija was actually way better against lefties than against righties last season, for whatever that's worth. Hopefully if that's the case and the trend continues he'll be used against tough lefties more so than Cotts.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably from me here... I've posted those numbers a few times and the numbers of the rest of our right-handers against lefties, which are all very good except for Vizcaino(and Lou realizes this). Shark's good against lefties because he throws that tailing Maddux two-seamer that looks like it's going to hit them and ends up being a strike, and because of his splitter.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heilman was awful against lefties last season.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Clapp - 03-09-2009
<!--quoteo(post=22577:date=Mar 9 2009, 01:53 PM:name=Brock)-->QUOTE (Brock @ Mar 9 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=22575:date=Mar 9 2009, 02:46 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Mar 9 2009, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=22568:date=Mar 9 2009, 12:39 PM:name=Brock)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brock @ Mar 9 2009, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I was reading somewhere recently that Samardzija was actually way better against lefties than against righties last season, for whatever that's worth. Hopefully if that's the case and the trend continues he'll be used against tough lefties more so than Cotts.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably from me here... I've posted those numbers a few times and the numbers of the rest of our right-handers against lefties, which are all very good except for Vizcaino(and Lou realizes this). Shark's good against lefties because he throws that tailing Maddux two-seamer that looks like it's going to hit them and ends up being a strike, and because of his splitter.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heilman was awful against lefties last season.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ah you're right. We acquired him after I had posted all those numbers.
Really it was just last year though as I'm looking at his numbers, and he won't pitch anything like last year.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - Scarey - 03-09-2009
<!--quoteo(post=22571:date=Mar 9 2009, 03:17 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Mar 9 2009, 03:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=22544:date=Mar 9 2009, 12:13 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Mar 9 2009, 12:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->LOOGY's are the most worthless thing ever<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm willing to listen to your reasoning. Are you saying that any and all "situational' relief pitchers are worthless? Are you questioning the platoon effect?
I don't have strong feelings either way on the subject, but common sense would seem to indicate:
-there is a definite platoon advantage that exists in baseball, and having a good lefty reliever would be similarly valuable to having a good lefty bat off the bench.
-throughout history, and continuing to the present, there have been disproportionate numbers of excellent lefty hitters in baseball.
-for a number of reasons, not all of them agreed upon, lefty hitters statistically do significantly worse against lefty pitchers than righty hitters do against righty hitters.
-as we've seen countless times, all at bats in a game are not evenly weighted.
For instance, if we're playing the Pirates, which batting situation is more important:
1-their weak-hitting SS, batting 8th, comes up with 2 outs and nobody on in the 2nd inning.
2-Nate McClouth, a lefty, comes up with the bases loaded in the 8th inning of a tie ballgame?
Obviously it's #2. Now say that McClouth hits .310 against righties, and .230 against lefties.
How is it worthless to bring in a lefty to pitch to him? It would seem to actually have a ton of worth to bring in a lefty specialist there.
Even to turn around a switch-hitter has huge value. Chipper Jones and Lance Berkman are good hitters from both sides, but they're both FAR better from the lefty side. (for example, Berkman's career Slugging percentage as a lefty is over .600 (think Ted Williams or Manny Ramirez) and as a righty is .423 (think Reed Johnson). Who would you rather face in a critical situation, Reed Johnson or Ted Williams?
If I'm missing something, and I very well may be, please point it out.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Put me down in the pro-lefty-specialist group. I just heard today that the Phillies are going to be batting Ibanez behind Howard. We're not going to be facing that match up a whole lot this year, but there's plenty of other tandems such as that across MLB.
Joe Beimel for LOOGY? - leonardsipes - 03-09-2009
I am not a big fan of the word "loogey", but seven guys in the bull pen, it makes sense to have at least 2 lhrs.