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+--- Thread: 6 Inning Game (/thread-6476.html)
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6 Inning Game - Andy - 08-14-2009
At least for the Cubs it is. Why bother with the 7-9?
When winning after 6:
48-7
When losing after 6:
4-43
So for as much as our bullpen is a pain in the ass, they usually get the job done when we're winning. If we're losing heading to the 7th, it's game over. Remember how much better last year was?
2008:
Winning after 6:
74-5
Losing after 6:
18-48
The 2009 Cubs do not know how to play from behind. If we're losing heading into the 7th, you might as well turn off the game.
6 Inning Game - MW4 - 08-14-2009
I didn't realize it was that bad.
Do you have the League and MLB averages?
I'd like to see where we are comparitively.
6 Inning Game - Andy - 08-14-2009
Here ya go: Those stats.
In all of baseball, only the Giants are worse when trailing after 6.
The Cardinals are one the best teams.
The Yankees are an incredible 47-1 when leading after 6. Now that's a bullpen.
6 Inning Game - vitaminB - 08-14-2009
I saw a stat on ESPN yesterday where we were like 3rd in the league in walk off wins. Must be a case of us blowing a lead after the 6th and then coming back to win.
6 Inning Game - kbwsb - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=57956:date=Aug 14 2009, 03:31 PM:name=vitaminB)-->QUOTE (vitaminB @ Aug 14 2009, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I saw a stat on ESPN yesterday where we were like 3rd in the league in walk off wins. Must be a case of us blowing a lead after the 6th and then coming back to win.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We're 19th in OBP and 22nd in runs scored.
Last year we were near the top in both.
However, some say that there's no connection, so maybe they're right.
6 Inning Game - ruby23 - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->However, some say that there's no connection, so maybe they're right.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard a single person say anything like that, whether it be here, on TV, or elsewhere. You're knack for completely not understanding what people are actually saying is outstanding.
6 Inning Game - kbwsb - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58005:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->However, some say that there's no connection, so maybe they're right.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard a single person say anything like that, whether it be here, on TV, or elsewhere. You're knack for completely not understanding what people are actually saying is outstanding.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have.
However, I will re-state it, using stronger, but more clear language:
The biggest connection of ANY stat in baseball to winning games, is OBP. Number one. No other stat is a close second; SLG is a distant second.
Rank in MLB for OBP and Runs Scored (Cubs)
2009: OBP-19th, Runs-22nd
2008: OBP-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->, Runs-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
2007: OBP-17th, Runs-18th
2006: OBP-29th, Runs-28th
2005: OBP-20th, Runs-20th
2004: OBP-23rd, Runs-16th
2003: OBP-23rd, Runs-20th
6 Inning Game - jstraw - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58006:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58005:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->However, some say that there's no connection, so maybe they're right.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard a single person say anything like that, whether it be here, on TV, or elsewhere. You're knack for completely not understanding what people are actually saying is outstanding.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have.
However, I will re-state it, using stronger, but more clear language:
The biggest connection of ANY stat in baseball to winning games, is OBP. Number one. No other stat is a close second; SLG is a distant second.
Rank in MLB for OBP and Runs Scored (Cubs)
2009: OBP-19th, Runs-22nd
2008: OBP-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->, Runs-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
2007: OBP-17th, Runs-18th
2006: OBP-29th, Runs-28th
2005: OBP-20th, Runs-20th
2004: OBP-23rd, Runs-16th
2003: OBP-23rd, Runs-20th
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you just discovered the importance of OBP. I think everyone understands the value of base runners.
6 Inning Game - Butcher - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58016:date=Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58006:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58005:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->However, some say that there's no connection, so maybe they're right.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard a single person say anything like that, whether it be here, on TV, or elsewhere. You're knack for completely not understanding what people are actually saying is outstanding.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have.
However, I will re-state it, using stronger, but more clear language:
The biggest connection of ANY stat in baseball to winning games, is OBP. Number one. No other stat is a close second; SLG is a distant second.
Rank in MLB for OBP and Runs Scored (Cubs)
2009: OBP-19th, Runs-22nd
2008: OBP-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->, Runs-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
2007: OBP-17th, Runs-18th
2006: OBP-29th, Runs-28th
2005: OBP-20th, Runs-20th
2004: OBP-23rd, Runs-16th
2003: OBP-23rd, Runs-20th
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you just discovered the importance of OBP. I think everyone understands the value of base runners.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This argument has been going on for at least five years, jstraw. People have come and gone, but this discussion will forever remain. In 10,000 years, some advanced civilization will discover it, study it, and declare that the Boston Red Sox would never trade for Cesar Izturis.
6 Inning Game - kbwsb - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58016:date=Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58006:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58005:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->However, some say that there's no connection, so maybe they're right.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard a single person say anything like that, whether it be here, on TV, or elsewhere. You're knack for completely not understanding what people are actually saying is outstanding.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have.
However, I will re-state it, using stronger, but more clear language:
The biggest connection of ANY stat in baseball to winning games, is OBP. Number one. No other stat is a close second; SLG is a distant second.
Rank in MLB for OBP and Runs Scored (Cubs)
2009: OBP-19th, Runs-22nd
2008: OBP-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->, Runs-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
2007: OBP-17th, Runs-18th
2006: OBP-29th, Runs-28th
2005: OBP-20th, Runs-20th
2004: OBP-23rd, Runs-16th
2003: OBP-23rd, Runs-20th
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you just discovered the importance of OBP. I think everyone understands the value of base runners.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, straw, but the argument isn't whether or not baserunners are important. As Ruby noted, everyone knows that.
It's whether or not a player's propensity for getting on base (not making outs) should be the <i>most</i> important skill the front office should consider.
6 Inning Game - jstraw - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58018:date=Aug 14 2009, 07:46 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 14 2009, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58016:date=Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58006:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58005:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->However, some say that there's no connection, so maybe they're right.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard a single person say anything like that, whether it be here, on TV, or elsewhere. You're knack for completely not understanding what people are actually saying is outstanding.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have.
However, I will re-state it, using stronger, but more clear language:
The biggest connection of ANY stat in baseball to winning games, is OBP. Number one. No other stat is a close second; SLG is a distant second.
Rank in MLB for OBP and Runs Scored (Cubs)
2009: OBP-19th, Runs-22nd
2008: OBP-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->, Runs-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
2007: OBP-17th, Runs-18th
2006: OBP-29th, Runs-28th
2005: OBP-20th, Runs-20th
2004: OBP-23rd, Runs-16th
2003: OBP-23rd, Runs-20th
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you just discovered the importance of OBP. I think everyone understands the value of base runners.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This argument has been going on for at least five years, jstraw. People have come and gone, but this discussion will forever remain. In 10,000 years, some advanced civilization will discover it, study it, and declare that the Boston Red Sox would never trade for Cesar Izturis.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess I just wasn't aware that the idea that OBP is a significant offensive stat was considered even remotely controversial.
6 Inning Game - kbwsb - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58030:date=Aug 14 2009, 09:43 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2009, 09:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58018:date=Aug 14 2009, 07:46 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 14 2009, 07:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58016:date=Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Aug 14 2009, 07:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58006:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Aug 14 2009, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58005:date=Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Aug 14 2009, 06:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE <!--quotec-->However, some say that there's no connection, so maybe they're right.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->I have never heard a single person say anything like that, whether it be here, on TV, or elsewhere. You're knack for completely not understanding what people are actually saying is outstanding.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I have.
However, I will re-state it, using stronger, but more clear language:
The biggest connection of ANY stat in baseball to winning games, is OBP. Number one. No other stat is a close second; SLG is a distant second.
Rank in MLB for OBP and Runs Scored (Cubs)
2009: OBP-19th, Runs-22nd
2008: OBP-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->, Runs-<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->2nd<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
2007: OBP-17th, Runs-18th
2006: OBP-29th, Runs-28th
2005: OBP-20th, Runs-20th
2004: OBP-23rd, Runs-16th
2003: OBP-23rd, Runs-20th
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't think you just discovered the importance of OBP. I think everyone understands the value of base runners.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This argument has been going on for at least five years, jstraw. People have come and gone, but this discussion will forever remain. In 10,000 years, some advanced civilization will discover it, study it, and declare that the Boston Red Sox would never trade for Cesar Izturis.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I guess I just wasn't aware that the idea that OBP is a <b>significant</b> offensive stat was considered even remotely controversial.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess the <i>amount</i> of significance placed on it is the arguing point.
Here's the truth, though: OBP can't be the ONLY criterion for judging players.
Even I know that.
And there are players (not many) who have so many other valuable skills, that they are desirable even if they have poor on-base skills.
Probably the utmost example is former Cub Andre Dawson: his low OBP (relatively, for a star) is what's keeping him out of the Hall Of Fame. But the reason he was valuable is that he did everything else <i>real</i> well (hit for power, Gold Glove defense, great team guy, outstanding baserunner until his knees gave out). Obviously, Soriano is in that mold (or used to be).
It has seemed to me like the current Cub front office values OBP a little less than they do other skills. I think the stats seem to indicate that I'm correct in my assumption: in 6 of the 7 years that Jim has been in charge, the Cubs have finished with an OBP <i>below the league average.</i>
I wish they valued it a little more, that's all.
6 Inning Game - dk123 - 08-19-2009
So....this. I don't tend to buy into the whole heartless, ball-less, etc. business, but if a team was ever heartless, it's this one.
6 Inning Game - Andy - 09-24-2009
Looks like it hasn't gotten any better:
When winning after 6:
Aug 13 - 48-7
Sep 24 - 67-7 --- 19-0 in that time when leading after 6.
When losing after 6:
Aug 13 - 4-43
Sep 24 - 4-59 --- 0-16 in that time when trailing after 6.
6 Inning Game - rok - 09-24-2009
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->The biggest connection of ANY stat in baseball to winning games, is OBP. Number one. No other stat is a close second; SLG is a distant second.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OBP has the highest correlation to runs scored, not necessarily to winning %. I think you could make a strong case for team ERA when looking at contributions to winning %. You need both to win.