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+--- Thread: Alfonso Soriano (/thread-6004.html)
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Alfonso Soriano - savant - 12-12-2009
I was thinking about Soriano's terrible season last night and wanted to put some thoughts together on him. In his first two years with the Cubs, he was a solid producer providing a ton of power and right around a .900 ops. Last year he looked like an old man, and put up a .726 ops which would be hard to accept from a slick fielding shortstop. I hope that the health of his left knee was a major factor last year, because it seems impossible to fall off of a cliff in the manner that Soriano did.
He is really going to need to make some mechanical adjustments to be able to handle offspeed pitches better, because the league finally figured out last year that the only thing he can hit is a fastball. He saw about 25% fewer fastballs last year than he ever had while playing in the NL.
What does everyone think? Can he make the necessary adjustment? Can he return to some type of relative health? Is he done, with the Cubs on the hook for five more years of premium player salary?
With the way the Cubs salary structure is set up over the next few years, with the jettisoning of Bradley. If Soriano and Soto can not return to close to 2008 levels of production, we are set up to have some pretty lean years.
Alfonso Soriano - Runnys - 12-12-2009
I don't think that Soriano was healthy at any point last year. With that said, I also don't see a player in his mid 30's all of sudden adjusting the way he plays the game in the batter's box. Soriano will get his homeruns, but he is going to see more and more breaking balls especially in important situations.
Alfonso Soriano - rok - 12-12-2009
It's been amazing to me how Soriano is able to hit for average the way he has over the course of his career despite his poor eye at the plate. That said, I expect him to rebound, but I think his best days are behind him. The fact that he's been breaking down more and more in recent years is a disturbing trend at his age. I doubt he will ever be fully healthy again for an entire season, and that is of great concern to me.
Alfonso Soriano - veryzer - 12-12-2009
<!--quoteo(post=71470:date=Dec 12 2009, 01:13 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Dec 12 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's been amazing to me how Soriano is able to hit for average the way he has over the course of his career despite his poor eye at the plate. That said, I expect him to rebound, but I think his best days are behind him. The fact that he's been breaking down more and more in recent years is a disturbing trend at his age. I doubt he will ever be fully healthy again for an entire season, and that is of great concern to me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This.
Alfonso Soriano - savant - 12-12-2009
Runnys, I think that all players that have been able to survive in the bigs for ten plus years have learned to make adjustments. For us as the casual fans it is hard to see, but being able to make adjustments is the essence of being a big league player. Maybe Soriano has relied more on natural ability than most, because he is a truly special athlete. Which is why his continued struggles catching a fly ball piss me off so much.
Rok, his age and increasing frailty in the post steroid area is going to be a major concern to us for the next five years. We aren't going to be seeing players increasing their peak performances all the way through their thirty's any longer, and little dings are going to take a greater toll with more and more missed playing time. I just hope that the Cubs in the future are more inclined to give Soriano time off when he is dinged to increase his level of performance while he is on the field.
Alfonso Soriano - Clapp - 12-12-2009
<!--quoteo(post=71467:date=Dec 12 2009, 11:24 AM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ Dec 12 2009, 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I was thinking about Soriano's terrible season last night and wanted to put some thoughts together on him. In his first two years with the Cubs, he was a solid producer providing a ton of power and right around a .900 ops. Last year he looked like an old man, and put up a .726 ops which would be hard to accept from a slick fielding shortstop. <b>I hope that the health of his left knee was a major factor last year</b>, because it seems impossible to fall off of a cliff in the manner that Soriano did.
He is really going to need to make some mechanical adjustments to be able to handle offspeed pitches better, because the league finally figured out last year that the only thing he can hit is a fastball. He saw about 25% fewer fastballs last year than he ever had while playing in the NL.
What does everyone think? Can he make the necessary adjustment? Can he return to some type of relative health? Is he done, with the Cubs on the hook for five more years of premium player salary?
With the way the Cubs salary structure is set up over the next few years, with the jettisoning of Bradley. If Soriano and Soto can not return to close to 2008 levels of production, we are set up to have some pretty lean years.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was by far the biggest problem. Like rok said, his best days are probably behind him, but he won't have last year again if the knee is right. He was limping constantly. And look at his stance/swing... he needs that left knee. There were times last year he was hardly using that leg kick.
Alfonso Soriano - savant - 12-12-2009
Clapp, logic tells me that you are right on the money. Being a Cub fan just makes me a bit nervous about him. I can't expess enough how important Soriano having a bounce back year is to our playoff chances.
Alfonso Soriano - wcplummer - 12-12-2009
We will be playoff contenders only if Lee and Ramirez are healthy and produce, Z pitches like a top of the rotation guy all year, and everyone else in the central sucks ass.
Alfonso Soriano - Clapp - 12-12-2009
<!--quoteo(post=71480:date=Dec 12 2009, 02:40 PM:name=wcplummer)-->QUOTE (wcplummer @ Dec 12 2009, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->We will be playoff contenders only if Lee and Ramirez are healthy and produce, Z pitches like a top of the rotation guy all year, and everyone else in the central sucks ass.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cubs were in 1st place on August 6th with about everything outside of Derrek Lee going wrong. I think people are greatly exaggerating the problems on the surface headed into 2010. Beyond I'm very, very worried, but as things look at the moment, there's no reason they can't win 90+ games and this division. Anything but should be considered a major disappointment.
Alfonso Soriano - wcplummer - 12-12-2009
<!--quoteo(post=71482:date=Dec 12 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 12 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71480:date=Dec 12 2009, 02:40 PM:name=wcplummer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wcplummer @ Dec 12 2009, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->We will be playoff contenders only if Lee and Ramirez are healthy and produce, Z pitches like a top of the rotation guy all year, and everyone else in the central sucks ass.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cubs were in 1st place on August 6th with about everything outside of Derrek Lee going wrong. I think people are greatly exaggerating the problems on the surface headed into 2010. Beyond I'm very, very worried, but as things look at the moment, there's no reason they can't win 90+ games and this division. Anything but should be considered a major disappointment.
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I just don't see with everyone a year older and probably getting worse in the OF due to trade that we will be any better than last year. I think the reds & brewers will be a little better and the cards will be about the same if not better.
Alfonso Soriano - Andy - 12-12-2009
<!--quoteo(post=71482:date=Dec 12 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 12 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71480:date=Dec 12 2009, 02:40 PM:name=wcplummer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wcplummer @ Dec 12 2009, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->We will be playoff contenders only if Lee and Ramirez are healthy and produce, Z pitches like a top of the rotation guy all year, and everyone else in the central sucks ass.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cubs were in 1st place on August 6th with about everything outside of Derrek Lee going wrong. I think people are greatly exaggerating the problems on the surface headed into 2010. Beyond I'm very, very worried, but as things look at the moment, there's no reason they can't win 90+ games and this division. Anything but should be considered a major disappointment.
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Amen.
Alfonso Soriano - Clapp - 12-12-2009
<!--quoteo(post=71483:date=Dec 12 2009, 03:16 PM:name=wcplummer)-->QUOTE (wcplummer @ Dec 12 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71482:date=Dec 12 2009, 03:59 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 12 2009, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71480:date=Dec 12 2009, 02:40 PM:name=wcplummer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wcplummer @ Dec 12 2009, 02:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->We will be playoff contenders only if Lee and Ramirez are healthy and produce, Z pitches like a top of the rotation guy all year, and everyone else in the central sucks ass.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cubs were in 1st place on August 6th with about everything outside of Derrek Lee going wrong. I think people are greatly exaggerating the problems on the surface headed into 2010. Beyond I'm very, very worried, but as things look at the moment, there's no reason they can't win 90+ games and this division. Anything but should be considered a major disappointment.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just don't see with everyone a year older and probably getting worse in the OF due to trade that we will be any better than last year. I think the reds & brewers will be a little better and thehttp://www.thecubsbrickyard.com/sonsofivy/index.php?act=Post&CODE=02&f=7&t=2535&qpid=71483 cards will be about the same if not better.
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I don't know. This is the 09 outfield(well the 4 main guys):
Soriano... .241, 20 HR, 55 RBI, .726 ops
Fukudome... .259, 11 HR, 54 RBI, .796 OPS
Reed... .255, 4 HR, 22 RBI, .742 OPS
Bradley... .257, 12 HR, 40 RBI, .775 OPS
That was probably the worst outfield in baseball at the plate, and it certainly wasn't any better defensively. I don't see how the offensive performance can't get at least a bit better from the outfielders. If Soriano's healthy and ready to go on opening day, he alone will make it much better. Fukudome is what he is, but you'd think we'll get better numbers from the other outfielder than what Bradley put up.
The Reds won't be making any noticeable moves as Dusty said this past week, and he's killing their talented young arms. The Brewers could get better and will be a threat, but there's no reason the Cubs shouldn't be at least as good as them.
Alfonso Soriano - savant - 12-12-2009
Clapp, you bring up a good point with the everything went wrong last year. Fukudome and Soto had had historically bad luck last year, with Soriano playing on one leg, and all of the time Aramis missed, Fontenot laying an egg, and Badley doing his table setter act. While only Wells and Lee could be considered bright spots . Luck usually has a way of evening itself out from year to year. If we get a real centerfielder we will improve greatly simply by being a better defensive club. Fukudome is one of the best defensive rightfielders in the game, while he was a bit below average in center. I still don't like going into the season with Theriot and Fontenot up the middle, maybe Baker is the real deal but I hate relying on him.
,
Alfonso Soriano - Clapp - 12-12-2009
<!--quoteo(post=71487:date=Dec 12 2009, 04:22 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ Dec 12 2009, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Clapp, you bring up a good point with the everything went wrong last year. Fukudome and Soto had had historically bad luck last year, with Soriano playing on one leg, and all of the time Aramis missed, Fontenot laying an egg, and Badley doing his table setter act. While only Wells and Lee could be considered bright spots . Luck usually has a way of evening itself out from year to year. If we get a real centerfielder we will improve greatly simply by being a better defensive club. Fukudome is one of the best defensive rightfielders in the game, while he was a bit below average in center. I still don't like going into the season with Theriot and Fontenot up the middle, maybe Baker is the real deal but I hate relying on him.
,<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This guy who has a Sporting News radio show said that he's heard from a Cubs source that we're in serious talks for Jose Lopez. Not sure how much to believe it, but it would make sense for what the Cubs are looking to acquire. He's pretty much a Brandon Phillips... but walks even less.
08 numbers: .297/.322/.443... 17 HR, 89 RBI, 27 BB, 67 K, 41 2B, 6 SB
09 numbers: .272/.303/.463... 25 HR, 96 RBI, 24 BB, 69 K, 42 2B, 3 SB
Hardly ever walks and was 2nd in the league in double plays with 25 last year, which makes sense with blah speed and hitting for so much contact. But 25 homers and 42 doubles... that could be 30 bombs at Wrigley. Just turned 26 last month and has played at least 149 games each of the last 4 years. What worries me is Lou would bat him 2nd or something, as he has just a .303 career obp.
Alfonso Soriano - veryzer - 12-12-2009
<!--quoteo(post=71491:date=Dec 12 2009, 05:58 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Dec 12 2009, 05:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=71487:date=Dec 12 2009, 04:22 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Dec 12 2009, 04:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Clapp, you bring up a good point with the everything went wrong last year. Fukudome and Soto had had historically bad luck last year, with Soriano playing on one leg, and all of the time Aramis missed, Fontenot laying an egg, and Badley doing his table setter act. While only Wells and Lee could be considered bright spots . Luck usually has a way of evening itself out from year to year. If we get a real centerfielder we will improve greatly simply by being a better defensive club. Fukudome is one of the best defensive rightfielders in the game, while he was a bit below average in center. I still don't like going into the season with Theriot and Fontenot up the middle, maybe Baker is the real deal but I hate relying on him.
,<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This guy who has a Sporting News radio show said that he's heard from a Cubs source that we're in serious talks for Jose Lopez. Not sure how much to believe it, but it would make sense for what the Cubs are looking to acquire. He's pretty much a Brandon Phillips... but walks even less.
08 numbers: .297/.322/.443... 17 HR, 89 RBI, 27 BB, 67 K, 41 2B, 6 SB
09 numbers: .272/.303/.463... 25 HR, 96 RBI, 24 BB, 69 K, 42 2B, 3 SB
Hardly ever walks and was 2nd in the league in double plays with 25 last year, which makes sense with blah speed and hitting for so much contact. But 25 homers and 42 doubles... that could be 30 bombs at Wrigley. Just turned 26 last month and has played at least 149 games each of the last 4 years. What worries me is Lou would bat him 2nd or something, as he has just a .303 career obp.
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How is he with the glove?