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+--- Thread: Not to pick on Dusty, but... (/thread-5318.html)
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - kbwsb - 05-01-2010
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->Here's what the Cincinnati Reds did last Saturday: In the bottom of the third inning, pitcher Johnny Cueto, who was on first base, thought the third out had been made at first base, so he jogged around second and was tagged out halfway to third. In the next inning, baserunner Brandon Phillips was caught leaning off first by San Diego Padres pitcher Wade LeBlanc. The next inning, the same thing happened to the Reds' Jonny Gomes. The next inning, Reds center fielder Drew Stubbs forgot how many outs there were, and, after catching a fly ball for the second out of the sixth inning, threw the ball into the stands. Four straight innings, four mental errors.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man, do I remember that shit. This quote is from an ESPN article that says that mental errors are very common for a <i>lot</i> of players, so it isn't just the Reds. It's an MLB-wide problem. But you know?
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - 1060Ivy - 05-01-2010
Has there ever been a smart Dusty Baker led team?
Dusty doesn't value baseball IQ or Any other IQ
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - ruby23 - 05-02-2010
Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - Ace - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94159:date=May 2 2010, 10:59 AM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but there are incidents of first-base-picking that could be the result of a mental mistake.
You are correct, however, that most are not mental mistakes in any way.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - ruby23 - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94160:date=May 2 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94159:date=May 2 2010, 10:59 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but there are incidents of first-base-picking that could be the result of a mental mistake.
You are correct, however, that most are not mental mistakes in any way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but it's as much of a mental mistake as someone trying to score from 2nd on a single and being thrown out at the plate. While there may have been a slight error in judgement or technique, getting picked off first isn't generally described a mental mistake.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - Ace - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94161:date=May 2 2010, 01:03 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94160:date=May 2 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94159:date=May 2 2010, 10:59 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but there are incidents of first-base-picking that could be the result of a mental mistake.
You are correct, however, that most are not mental mistakes in any way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but it's as much of a mental mistake as someone trying to score from 2nd on a single and being thrown out at the plate. While there may have been a slight error in judgement or technique, getting picked off first isn't generally described a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is that there are times when getting picked off is 100% a mental mistake (though rare). For example, if it's the 9th, and your team is down 2, you're on first with Albert Pujols up. In that situation, getting picked off is most likely a mental mistake.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - ruby23 - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94162:date=May 2 2010, 12:11 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94161:date=May 2 2010, 01:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94160:date=May 2 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94159:date=May 2 2010, 10:59 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but there are incidents of first-base-picking that could be the result of a mental mistake.
You are correct, however, that most are not mental mistakes in any way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but it's as much of a mental mistake as someone trying to score from 2nd on a single and being thrown out at the plate. While there may have been a slight error in judgement or technique, getting picked off first isn't generally described a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is that there are times when getting picked off is 100% a mental mistake (though rare). For example, if it's the 9th, and your team is down 2, you're on first with Albert Pujols up. In that situation, getting picked off is most likely a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - Kid - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94181:date=May 2 2010, 02:54 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94162:date=May 2 2010, 12:11 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94161:date=May 2 2010, 01:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94160:date=May 2 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94159:date=May 2 2010, 10:59 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but there are incidents of first-base-picking that could be the result of a mental mistake.
You are correct, however, that most are not mental mistakes in any way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but it's as much of a mental mistake as someone trying to score from 2nd on a single and being thrown out at the plate. While there may have been a slight error in judgement or technique, getting picked off first isn't generally described a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is that there are times when getting picked off is 100% a mental mistake (though rare). For example, if it's the 9th, and your team is down 2, you're on first with Albert Pujols up. In that situation, getting picked off is most likely a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that getting picked off 1st can be a mental mistake, but usually isn't. I'm not sure that's the best example, only because in that situation, a player might be trying to take an extra step to try to score on a double, which would be reasonable and probably not a mental mistake even with Pujols at the plate.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - Ace - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94184:date=May 2 2010, 02:55 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ May 2 2010, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94181:date=May 2 2010, 02:54 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94162:date=May 2 2010, 12:11 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94161:date=May 2 2010, 01:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94160:date=May 2 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94159:date=May 2 2010, 10:59 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but there are incidents of first-base-picking that could be the result of a mental mistake.
You are correct, however, that most are not mental mistakes in any way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but it's as much of a mental mistake as someone trying to score from 2nd on a single and being thrown out at the plate. While there may have been a slight error in judgement or technique, getting picked off first isn't generally described a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is that there are times when getting picked off is 100% a mental mistake (though rare). For example, if it's the 9th, and your team is down 2, you're on first with Albert Pujols up. In that situation, getting picked off is most likely a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that getting picked off 1st can be a mental mistake, but usually isn't. I'm not sure that's the best example, only because in that situation, a player might be trying to take an extra step to try to score on a double, which would be reasonable and probably not a mental mistake even with Pujols at the plate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Down by 2. Trying to score on a double would be a HUGE mental mistake also.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - Kid - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94187:date=May 2 2010, 03:01 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94184:date=May 2 2010, 02:55 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ May 2 2010, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94181:date=May 2 2010, 02:54 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94162:date=May 2 2010, 12:11 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94161:date=May 2 2010, 01:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94160:date=May 2 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94159:date=May 2 2010, 10:59 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but there are incidents of first-base-picking that could be the result of a mental mistake.
You are correct, however, that most are not mental mistakes in any way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but it's as much of a mental mistake as someone trying to score from 2nd on a single and being thrown out at the plate. While there may have been a slight error in judgement or technique, getting picked off first isn't generally described a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is that there are times when getting picked off is 100% a mental mistake (though rare). For example, if it's the 9th, and your team is down 2, you're on first with Albert Pujols up. In that situation, getting picked off is most likely a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that getting picked off 1st can be a mental mistake, but usually isn't. I'm not sure that's the best example, only because in that situation, a player might be trying to take an extra step to try to score on a double, which would be reasonable and probably not a mental mistake even with Pujols at the plate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Down by 2. Trying to score on a double would be a HUGE mental mistake also.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. However, it's not a huge mental mistake if you read your hypothetical as down by 1, which I did. So I'm right. I'm apparently also illiterate, but I'm right.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - Ace - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94188:date=May 2 2010, 03:03 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ May 2 2010, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94187:date=May 2 2010, 03:01 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 03:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94184:date=May 2 2010, 02:55 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ May 2 2010, 02:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94181:date=May 2 2010, 02:54 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 02:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94162:date=May 2 2010, 12:11 PM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 12:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94161:date=May 2 2010, 01:03 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94160:date=May 2 2010, 10:43 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ May 2 2010, 10:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94159:date=May 2 2010, 10:59 AM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ May 2 2010, 10:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Not to nitpick, but getting picked off first base isn't really a a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but there are incidents of first-base-picking that could be the result of a mental mistake.
You are correct, however, that most are not mental mistakes in any way.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but it's as much of a mental mistake as someone trying to score from 2nd on a single and being thrown out at the plate. While there may have been a slight error in judgement or technique, getting picked off first isn't generally described a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is that there are times when getting picked off is 100% a mental mistake (though rare). For example, if it's the 9th, and your team is down 2, you're on first with Albert Pujols up. In that situation, getting picked off is most likely a mental mistake.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that getting picked off 1st can be a mental mistake, but usually isn't. I'm not sure that's the best example, only because in that situation, a player might be trying to take an extra step to try to score on a double, which would be reasonable and probably not a mental mistake even with Pujols at the plate.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Down by 2. Trying to score on a double would be a HUGE mental mistake also.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. However, it's not a huge mental mistake if you read your hypothetical as down by 1, which I did. So I'm right. I'm apparently also illiterate, but I'm right.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif[/img]
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - kbwsb - 05-02-2010
I think being picked off first is <i>usually</i> a mental mistake. It's not because you aren't fast enough, or because the 1st base coach has suggested you take a huge lead. It's usually because you're caught napping, or aren't 100% aware of watching the pitcher's move.
If you're of the school that holds that every out is precious, and that every player who gets on base is a huge plus, then even attempting to <i>steal second</i> is a huge gamble. But at least then, there's a pretty big payoff if you make it. But getting picked off first is just stupid; you're surrendering a precious out (and baserunner), for what? An extra half-foot lead?
It's usually carelessness.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - Destined - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94190:date=May 2 2010, 12:05 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 2 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think being picked off first is <i>usually</i> a mental mistake. It's not because you aren't fast enough, or because the 1st base coach has suggested you take a huge lead. It's usually because you're caught napping, or aren't 100% aware of watching the pitcher's move.
If you're of the school that holds that every out is precious, and that every player who gets on base is a huge plus, then even attempting to <i>steal second</i> is a huge gamble. But at least then, there's a pretty big payoff if you make it. But getting picked off first is just stupid; you're surrendering a precious out (and baserunner), for what? An extra half-foot lead?
It's usually carelessness.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Being outsmarted by a nice move to first isn't a dumb mental error though.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - jstraw - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94190:date=May 2 2010, 02:05 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ May 2 2010, 02:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think being picked off first is <i>usually</i> a mental mistake. It's not because you aren't fast enough, or because the 1st base coach has suggested you take a huge lead. It's usually because you're caught napping, or aren't 100% aware of watching the pitcher's move.
If you're of the school that holds that every out is precious, and that every player who gets on base is a huge plus, then even attempting to <i>steal second</i> is a huge gamble. But at least then, there's a pretty big payoff if you make it. But getting picked off first is just stupid; you're surrendering a precious out (and baserunner), for what? An extra half-foot lead?
It's usually carelessness.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That half-foot can be the difference between stealing or getting caught. You're down a run with no outs in the late innings and a singles hitter is behind you, getting in scoring position is worth the risk.
Not to pick on Dusty, but... - ruby23 - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->I think being picked off first is usually a mental mistake.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't disagree more.