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+--- Thread: Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 (/thread-6624.html)
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Coldneck - 07-27-2009
yipee
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - rok - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52531:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:22 PM:name=Baron)-->QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 27 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52523:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:18 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jul 27 2009, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Bradley has zero bat speed from the left side.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you explain that being his power side? It baffles me.
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Because he's had more AB from the left side, nothing else.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - ruby23 - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52532:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52529:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:21 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jul 27 2009, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52516:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:15 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52509:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:11 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jul 27 2009, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52505:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52497:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52481:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've said my peace. I'm just consistently astonished at baseball fans immediate reaction to blame the manager when the player completely fucks up. In this case, the manager is an idiot for not bringing in a right handed hitter to face a right handed pitcher, because it's somehow a guarantee that he would hit a flyball. Putting in the lefty who SHOULD be able to handle the bat is complete insanity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to call for a bunt, put in a guy who bunts from time to time. Valverde was all over the place. You send Bradley home when Valverde's pitch was as likely to be a foot outside as it was a strike? Stupid move for so many reasons. If we lose this game, it's on Lou.
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Of course it's Lou's fault. It's always Lou's fault when we lose. This will be just one of 40 games we lose this year that will be "on Lou", either because of pitching changes, batting order, or asking a guy to hit a bunt fair or foul.
I swear Butch, you would fucking read "Casey at the Bat", and blame the manager for letting Casey bat.
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C'mon BT, I think we all realize that blaming the manager for making bad decisions gets blown outta proportion. But you can't possibly think what Lou did in the 9th was anything but completely assinine.
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Yes, I completely can. You are welcome to disagree, but it was a high return/low risk move. There are only 2 ways it doesn't work. A popup, or Fontenot completely shitting the bed and being unable to FOUL OFF A FUCKING BUNT. For the record Bob and Len are just as crazy as I am.
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I'm unable to comprehend that argument after the pitcher has already indicated that he couldn't throw strikes. Squeeze play never crossed my mind when a walk, a ground ball to the middle infield, or a medium depth flyball wins the game.
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That argument only matters if Fontenot was unable bunt the ball because it was a bad pitch. It was a strike.
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If we can't use results as an argument, you can't either. What actually happened on the play makes no difference, it was the wrong call from the get go. Even if he gets the bunt down, it's not something that should have even been attempted.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Clapp - 07-27-2009
Sweet, now Shark. I feel sick.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Baron - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52537:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:24 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jul 27 2009, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52531:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:22 PM:name=Baron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 27 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52523:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:18 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jul 27 2009, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Bradley has zero bat speed from the left side.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you explain that being his power side? It baffles me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because he's had more AB from the left side, nothing else.
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I every 28ish AB vs 1 in 67 AB.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Butcher - 07-27-2009
Here's where we lose it.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Clapp - 07-27-2009
Batting Fontenot instead of Fox is easily the thing that angers me the most, especially since Fox had to come into the game anyway. It's a pointless waste of a bench spot and whaddya know, we don't have one now.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - BT - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52534:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52526:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52512:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52505:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52497:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52481:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've said my peace. I'm just consistently astonished at baseball fans immediate reaction to blame the manager when the player completely fucks up. In this case, the manager is an idiot for not bringing in a right handed hitter to face a right handed pitcher, because it's somehow a guarantee that he would hit a flyball. Putting in the lefty who SHOULD be able to handle the bat is complete insanity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to call for a bunt, put in a guy who bunts from time to time. Valverde was all over the place. You send Bradley home when Valverde's pitch was as likely to be a foot outside as it was a strike? Stupid move for so many reasons. If we lose this game, it's on Lou.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course it's Lou's fault. It's always Lou's fault when we lose. This will be just one of 40 games we lose this year that will be "on Lou", either because of pitching changes, batting order, or asking a guy to hit a bunt fair or foul.
I swear Butch, you would fucking read "Casey at the Bat", and blame the manager for letting Casey bat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It isn't always Lou's fault, but tonight it absolutely is. A suicide squeeze after the pitcher just walked the bases loaded? I liked sending Fontenot up there because his strike zone is tiny. But not to execute a squeeze. That was fucking retarded.
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So if Fontenot hit into a DP, would it be "on Lou"? If Fox strikes out, would it be "on Lou"? Let me ask you guys, going by the results this year, how often have we done nothing special, and failed to score with bases loaded and one out? Would it be particularly unusual for us to have stranded those guys? How can a game in which the team scores ONE run in 10 innings, be "on" the manager? What do the players have to do to get blamed?
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No, because you aren't asking them to do something retarded.
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Asking for a squeeze is "retarded"? Asking a major league player, a non slugger, to bunt the ball, is asking them to do something "retarded"? I don't have any idea how to even argue that point.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - rok - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52540:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:26 PM:name=Baron)-->QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 27 2009, 10:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52537:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:24 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jul 27 2009, 10:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52531:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:22 PM:name=Baron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 27 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52523:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:18 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jul 27 2009, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Bradley has zero bat speed from the left side.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you explain that being his power side? It baffles me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because he's had more AB from the left side, nothing else.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I every 28ish AB vs 1 in 67 AB.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe he's swinging for the fences more from the left side, but it doesn't mean that he looks good from that side or that his bat looks quick either. He looks awkward from the left side, period.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - ruby23 - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52543:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Batting Fontenot instead of Fox is easily the thing that angers me the most.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Either one was fine, but whoever it was should have been taking a strike, then swinging away and trying to elevate or get it to the right side.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Clapp - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52546:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:28 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jul 27 2009, 09:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52543:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Batting Fontenot instead of Fox is easily the thing that angers me the most.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Either one was fine, but whoever it was should have been taking a strike, then swinging away and trying to elevate or get it to the right side.
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If Fox didn't have to come into the game anyway, I wouldn't have really cared. But there's no reason to burn another player when Fox has been a better hitter anyway.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Coach - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52543:date=Jul 27 2009, 11:27 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jul 27 2009, 11:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Batting Fontenot instead of Fox is easily the thing that angers me the most, especially since Fox had to come into the game anyway. It's a pointless waste of a bench spot and whaddya know, we don't have one now.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That was my thought.
I'm not a Fontenot fan anymore.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Butcher - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52544:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52534:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52526:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52512:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52505:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52497:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52481:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've said my peace. I'm just consistently astonished at baseball fans immediate reaction to blame the manager when the player completely fucks up. In this case, the manager is an idiot for not bringing in a right handed hitter to face a right handed pitcher, because it's somehow a guarantee that he would hit a flyball. Putting in the lefty who SHOULD be able to handle the bat is complete insanity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to call for a bunt, put in a guy who bunts from time to time. Valverde was all over the place. You send Bradley home when Valverde's pitch was as likely to be a foot outside as it was a strike? Stupid move for so many reasons. If we lose this game, it's on Lou.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course it's Lou's fault. It's always Lou's fault when we lose. This will be just one of 40 games we lose this year that will be "on Lou", either because of pitching changes, batting order, or asking a guy to hit a bunt fair or foul.
I swear Butch, you would fucking read "Casey at the Bat", and blame the manager for letting Casey bat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It isn't always Lou's fault, but tonight it absolutely is. A suicide squeeze after the pitcher just walked the bases loaded? I liked sending Fontenot up there because his strike zone is tiny. But not to execute a squeeze. That was fucking retarded.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So if Fontenot hit into a DP, would it be "on Lou"? If Fox strikes out, would it be "on Lou"? Let me ask you guys, going by the results this year, how often have we done nothing special, and failed to score with bases loaded and one out? Would it be particularly unusual for us to have stranded those guys? How can a game in which the team scores ONE run in 10 innings, be "on" the manager? What do the players have to do to get blamed?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, because you aren't asking them to do something retarded.
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Asking for a squeeze is "retarded"? Asking a major league player, a non slugger, to bunt the ball, is asking them to do something "retarded"? I don't have any idea how to even argue that point.
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In that situation? Yes. Extremely retarded.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - Clapp - 07-27-2009
Pudge is mad about earlier, he's going to hit one very hard here I fear.
Cubs-Astros 7/27/09 - BT - 07-27-2009
<!--quoteo(post=52538:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:25 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jul 27 2009, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52532:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52529:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:21 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jul 27 2009, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52516:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:15 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52509:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:11 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Jul 27 2009, 10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52505:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52497:date=Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Jul 27 2009, 10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=52481:date=Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Jul 27 2009, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I've said my peace. I'm just consistently astonished at baseball fans immediate reaction to blame the manager when the player completely fucks up. In this case, the manager is an idiot for not bringing in a right handed hitter to face a right handed pitcher, because it's somehow a guarantee that he would hit a flyball. Putting in the lefty who SHOULD be able to handle the bat is complete insanity.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you're going to call for a bunt, put in a guy who bunts from time to time. Valverde was all over the place. You send Bradley home when Valverde's pitch was as likely to be a foot outside as it was a strike? Stupid move for so many reasons. If we lose this game, it's on Lou.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Of course it's Lou's fault. It's always Lou's fault when we lose. This will be just one of 40 games we lose this year that will be "on Lou", either because of pitching changes, batting order, or asking a guy to hit a bunt fair or foul.
I swear Butch, you would fucking read "Casey at the Bat", and blame the manager for letting Casey bat.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
C'mon BT, I think we all realize that blaming the manager for making bad decisions gets blown outta proportion. But you can't possibly think what Lou did in the 9th was anything but completely assinine.
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Yes, I completely can. You are welcome to disagree, but it was a high return/low risk move. There are only 2 ways it doesn't work. A popup, or Fontenot completely shitting the bed and being unable to FOUL OFF A FUCKING BUNT. For the record Bob and Len are just as crazy as I am.
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I'm unable to comprehend that argument after the pitcher has already indicated that he couldn't throw strikes. Squeeze play never crossed my mind when a walk, a ground ball to the middle infield, or a medium depth flyball wins the game.
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That argument only matters if Fontenot was unable bunt the ball because it was a bad pitch. It was a strike.
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If we can't use results as an argument, you can't either. What actually happened on the play makes no difference, it was the wrong call from the get go. Even if he gets the bunt down, it's not something that should have even been attempted.
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Fine. If you want to argue that it was a bad idea because the pitcher was wild, and Fontenot might not be able to get to it, fine, knock yourself out. If discounting that possibility makes Lou assinine, your entitled to think that as well. However, that's not the argument anyone else here is making. I will fully admit it was within the realm of possibilities, but I also think that unless it went over his head, fontenot could have fouled off virtually any pitch.
And for the record, I'm the only one here NOT using the results as an argument.