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+--- Thread: Time to play GM (/thread-6221.html)
Time to play GM - PcB - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65646:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:30 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Oct 6 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65635:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:24 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65631:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65629:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:20 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 6 2009, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65625:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:14 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65620:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:08 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 6 2009, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Sign Lackey.
Lackey
Z
Lilly
Dempster
Wells
That's a good fucking rotation.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trade Z and put Marshall in there and it looks even better.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the fuck? Replacing Z with Marshall makes us better? Go crawl into a rape tunnel, son.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/spit.gif[/img]
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Laugh now. Moving Zambrano and getting out from under his contract would make this team much better off in my eyes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you think we have a better chance to win next season if we replace Zambrano with Marshall? The object of baseball is to win, correct?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you can use that money to fill in the gaps other places, yes we can win next year. Zambrano's 11 or 12 wins isn't that much of a step up from Marshall's probable 9 or 10.
Time to play GM - SandbergMVP1984 - 10-06-2009
Randy Wells is still an unknown as far as I'm concerned. He had a good season (not full) and is a rookie. I agree that we shouldn't be too confident having 2 unknowns at the end of our rotation.
Time to play GM - ruby23 - 10-06-2009
Orlando Cabrera fixes alot of problems.
Time to play GM - 1060Ivy - 10-06-2009
Wells did a great job this year but I can't really see how you can rely on him for anything better than a #5 as a starter next year.
The guy appears to either give up 4 or more runs per start or has an amazing game. It seems like almost 1/3 of his games (8 of 27 games), Randy has these "I just don't have it" games. In that respect he reminds me of Harden. The difference is that Harden had overpowering stuff, is a strikeout pitcher and has a reputation built on experience.
Wells relies on location and changing speeds which was enough for guys like Maddux but let's face it, Randy Wells is not the second coming of Maddux.
I'll attempt to post Well's Game Log Stats here but I don't know about the formatting.
<!--sizeo:1--><!--/sizeo-->DATE OPP RESULT IP H R ER HR BB SO GB FB PIT DEC ERA*
3-Oct ARI W 5-0 7 3 0 0 0 1 10 6 8 107 W(12-10) 3.16
27-Sep @SF L 5-1 5.1 10 5 5 0 2 1 17 8 79 L(11-10) 3.3
22-Sep @MIL W 7-2 6 7 1 1 1 0 5 9 11 89 W(11-9) 3.12
17-Sep MIL L 7-4 4 5 5 5 1 5 4 3 9 80 L(10-9) 3.18
12-Sep CIN L 7-5 3.2 5 5 1 0 3 0 12 8 89 - 2.96
6-Sep @NYM L 4-2 6 7 2 1 1 0 2 12 12 94 L(10-8) 2.84
1-Sep HOU W 4-1 6.2 7 1 0 0 2 4 11 10 94 W(10-7) 2.9
27-Aug WAS L 5-4 6.1 5 5 5 2 4 4 7 13 110 L(9-7) 3.06
21-Aug @LAD L 2-1 6.2 7 2 0 0 2 3 12 11 106 L(9-6) 2.84
14-Aug PIT W 17-2 6 7 2 2 0 2 3 10 10 86 W(9-5) 3.01
9-Aug @COL L 11-5 5.1 8 7 5 0 2 3 12 9 101 L(8-5) 3.01
3-Aug @CIN W 4-2 7.1 6 1 1 1 2 5 14 8 106 W(8-4) 2.73
29-Jul HOU W 12-0 8 6 0 0 0 2 1 17 10 110 W(7-4) 2.84
24-Jul CIN W 8-5 6 7 3 3 1 1 5 8 12 88 W(6-4) 3.1
18-Jul @WAS W 6-5 5 7 4 4 0 1 1 6 14 85 W(5-4) 3
12-Jul STL L 4-2 7 7 4 4 2 3 4 10 11 100 L(4-4) 2.72
6-Jul ATL W 4-2 6 7 2 2 1 0 4 9 13 87 W(4-3) 2.48
1-Jul @PIT W 4-1 7 6 1 1 0 1 4 12 9 97 W(3-3) 2.43
26-Jun @CWS W 5-4 7 5 2 2 2 2 6 8 10 97 W(2-3) 2.57
21-Jun CLE W 6-2 6.2 5 2 2 0 1 3 9 12 98 W(1-3) 2.57
12-Jun MIN L 7-4 3.2 7 4 4 1 2 1 5 11 78 L(0-3) 2.55
7-Jun @CIN W 6-3 6.2 7 2 2 0 1 4 9 14 91 - 1.86
2-Jun @ATL L 6-5 7 2 2 1 1 0 4 5 14 83 - 1.69
28-May LAD L 2-1 7 8 2 2 0 1 7 15 5 111 L(0-2) 1.8
23-May @SD L 3-1 7 5 3 3 0 1 7 9 9 95 L(0-1) 1.5
16-May HOU W 5-4 6 4 0 0 0 3 4 11 5 97 - 0
8-May @MIL L 3-2 5 5 0 0 0 2 5 8 6 84 - 0
Totals 165.1 165 67 56 14 46 104 266 272 2542 W(12-10) 3.05
<!--sizec--><!--/sizec-->
Time to play GM - bz - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65650:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:33 PM:name=PcB)-->QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65646:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:30 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Oct 6 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65635:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:24 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65631:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65629:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:20 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 6 2009, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65625:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:14 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65620:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:08 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 6 2009, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Sign Lackey.
Lackey
Z
Lilly
Dempster
Wells
That's a good fucking rotation.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trade Z and put Marshall in there and it looks even better.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the fuck? Replacing Z with Marshall makes us better? Go crawl into a rape tunnel, son.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/spit.gif[/img]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Laugh now. Moving Zambrano and getting out from under his contract would make this team much better off in my eyes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you think we have a better chance to win next season if we replace Zambrano with Marshall? The object of baseball is to win, correct?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you can use that money to fill in the gaps other places, yes we can win next year. Zambrano's 11 or 12 wins isn't that much of a step up from Marshall's probable 9 or 10.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you want to use wins as an argument why not consider the fact that the team went 18-10 when he started. The next best is Lilly (16-11) and Wells (14-13). Marshall 2-7 (2-5, 0-2 no-decisions).
Time to play GM - Butcher - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65650:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:33 PM:name=PcB)-->QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65646:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:30 PM:name=bz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bz @ Oct 6 2009, 04:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65635:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:24 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 04:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65631:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:21 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 04:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65629:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:20 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 6 2009, 04:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65625:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:14 PM:name=PcB)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PcB @ Oct 6 2009, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65620:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:08 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 6 2009, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Sign Lackey.
Lackey
Z
Lilly
Dempster
Wells
That's a good fucking rotation.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Trade Z and put Marshall in there and it looks even better.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the fuck? Replacing Z with Marshall makes us better? Go crawl into a rape tunnel, son.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/spit.gif[/img]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Laugh now. Moving Zambrano and getting out from under his contract would make this team much better off in my eyes.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you think we have a better chance to win next season if we replace Zambrano with Marshall? The object of baseball is to win, correct?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you can use that money to fill in the gaps other places, yes we can win next year. Zambrano's 11 or 12 wins isn't that much of a step up from Marshall's probable 9 or 10.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marshall's splits:
Starter: 4.86 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 1.79 K/BB, 6.1 K/9IP
Reliever: 3.15, 1.35 WHIP, 1.9 K/BB, 7.7 K/9IP
Marshall hasn't been very effective as a starter (and has been pretty serviceable as a reliever). Nothing I've seen from Marshall makes me think you can pencil him in for 10 wins as a starter.
Time to play GM - savant - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65652:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Orlando Cabrera fixes alot of problems.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not even sure if he was as good as Theriot last year. Either way not the type of improvement I am loking for. Reyes, or Ramirez type of improvement is what I am looking for.
Time to play GM - Butcher - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65652:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Orlando Cabrera fixes alot of problems.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really see it. If we're going to sign an old SS, I'd rather take my chances with Miguel Tejada.
Time to play GM - veryzer - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65599:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:45 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65597:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65594:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:28 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65592:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Oct 6 2009, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65590:date=Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Oct 6 2009, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said he was worthless, and I never mentioned anything about his stuff. <b>I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on</b>, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.
Also, I have no problem with Wells being the #5 guy in the rotation. I DO have a problem with Wells as the #4 SP and Gorzelanny or Shark as the #5 SP. That doesn't make me feel good about our chances in 2010. We have no idea what we'll get from these people next season.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find it hard to believe you are basing your opinion on what you saw this year alone<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#0000FF--><!--/coloro-->I'm basing my opinions on what I saw from him as the season went on, and on the fact that he hasn't been pitching for very long. He could very well be a decent, cheap option as a starter for a very long time.<!--colorc-->
<!--/colorc-->
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Randy Wells' ERA by month:
May: 1.80
June: 3.19
July: 3.23
August: 3.69
Sepember: 3.03
I'm not sure what you're getting at here man.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dude, I don't understand why I'm being singled out here for saying anything that I've said. I've been burned too much in the past by the Shawn Boskies and Jim Bullingers of my time to not get overly excited about any Cubs pitching prospect who comes out of nowhere.
All the stats you throw out there are meaningless to me until I see Wells have a decent sophomore season. I don't know what you're getting at either, and I have no desire to argue over an opinion (mine).
Respect is earned over several years, not one year that could very well be a fluke.
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obviously rok is right on th money. when a pitcher comes out of nowhere and has an unexpectedly good rookie year, it's natural, and right, to have some trepidation going into the next year.
Time to play GM - veryzer - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65658:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:52 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 6 2009, 04:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65652:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Orlando Cabrera fixes alot of problems.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't really see it. If we're going to sign an old SS, I'd rather take my chances with Miguel Tejada.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
now you're speaking my language.
Time to play GM - Scarey - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65653:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:43 PM:name=1060Ivy)-->QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Oct 6 2009, 04:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Wells did a great job this year but I can't really see how you can rely on him for anything better than a #5 as a starter next year.
The guy appears to either give up 4 or more runs per start or has an amazing game. It seems like almost 1/3 of his games (8 of 27 games), Randy has these "I just don't have it" games. In that respect he reminds me of Harden. The difference is that Harden had overpowering stuff, is a strikeout pitcher and has a reputation built on experience.
Wells relies on location and changing speeds which was enough for guys like Maddux but let's face it, Randy Wells is not the second coming of Maddux.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're saying the only one that can get by with locating pitches and changing speeds is Maddux? There's no in-between from Maddux---->sucks?
You say he gave up 4 runs or more in 7 out of 27 games? That's good, especially for a fourth starter.
18 out of 27 games this year he went 6 innings and gave up 3 runs or fewer. I know you guys have built up high expectations for 4 and 5 starters because of our 2004 and 2008 rotations, but look around the league. Almost every team out there would be lucky to have Wells as their 4th starter.
Time to play GM - ruby23 - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65657:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:49 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ Oct 6 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65652:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Orlando Cabrera fixes alot of problems.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not even sure if he was as good as Theriot last year. Either way not the type of improvement I am loking for. Reyes, or Ramirez type of improvement is what I am looking for.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not replacing Theriot per se, he's replacing the 2B. Then Theriot goes to 2B. Either Cabrera or Theriot bats 2nd and the other bats 8th. The up the middle defense becomes drastically better. This team doesn't need any other middle of the order guys. It needs guys who can be tablesetters and can play defense.
Time to play GM - Coach - 10-06-2009
I would be fine with Cabrera
Time to play GM - rok - 10-06-2009
A Tejada signing would be right up Hendry's alley, for better or worse.
Time to play GM - Brock - 10-06-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65681:date=Oct 6 2009, 06:40 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 6 2009, 06:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65657:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:49 PM:name=savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (savant @ Oct 6 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65652:date=Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM:name=ruby23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Oct 6 2009, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Orlando Cabrera fixes alot of problems.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not even sure if he was as good as Theriot last year. Either way not the type of improvement I am loking for. Reyes, or Ramirez type of improvement is what I am looking for.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not replacing Theriot per se, he's replacing the 2B. Then Theriot goes to 2B. Either Cabrera or Theriot bats 2nd and the other bats 8th. The up the middle defense becomes drastically better. This team doesn't need any other middle of the order guys. It needs guys who can be tablesetters and can play defense.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A guy with a career .322 OBP is a tablesetter?