Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - Printable Version

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Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - ruby23 - 11-19-2009

QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Nov 19 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Good.

I'm not sure what there is to like here. Grabow is a mediocre at best reliever.
</div>
I like the signing. <b>Grabow is better than any LHP pitcher the Cubs have or have had in the BP in a long time. </b> Next year, we don't have to worry about who a LHP outta the pen will be, he's there for sure. I happy with the signing, there's nothing wrong with it.
</div>
So was Scott Eyre. And Mike Remlinger.
</div>
Maybe we should go with Cotts then. Or maybe we should forget about having a LHP in the pen all together. And for everyone saying we should have just offered him arbitration, he made $2.3 M last year. Offer him arbitration and he gets the same salary anyway.
</div>
But for one year instead of two. Eyre and Howry both worked out fine for a season and then sucked the second season. It's a gamble with these middle relievers. Why lock yourself in to two years?
</div>
But, if he performs well like we hope he does, that 2nd year could actually come as a discount.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - jstraw - 11-19-2009

QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Nov 19 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Good.

I'm not sure what there is to like here. Grabow is a mediocre at best reliever.
</div>
I like the signing. <b>Grabow is better than any LHP pitcher the Cubs have or have had in the BP in a long time. </b> Next year, we don't have to worry about who a LHP outta the pen will be, he's there for sure. I happy with the signing, there's nothing wrong with it.
</div>
So was Scott Eyre. And Mike Remlinger.
</div>
Maybe we should go with Cotts then. Or maybe we should forget about having a LHP in the pen all together. And for everyone saying we should have just offered him arbitration, he made $2.3 M last year. Offer him arbitration and he gets the same salary anyway.
</div>
But for one year instead of two. Eyre and Howry both worked out fine for a season and then sucked the second season. It's a gamble with these middle relievers. Why lock yourself in to two years?
</div>
But, if he performs well like we hope he does, that 2nd year could actually come as a discount.
</div>

That's certainly our hope...now.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - ruby23 - 11-19-2009

QUOTE (jstraw @ Nov 19 2009, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Nov 19 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Good.

I'm not sure what there is to like here. Grabow is a mediocre at best reliever.
</div>
I like the signing. <b>Grabow is better than any LHP pitcher the Cubs have or have had in the BP in a long time. </b> Next year, we don't have to worry about who a LHP outta the pen will be, he's there for sure. I happy with the signing, there's nothing wrong with it.
</div>
So was Scott Eyre. And Mike Remlinger.
</div>
Maybe we should go with Cotts then. Or maybe we should forget about having a LHP in the pen all together. And for everyone saying we should have just offered him arbitration, he made $2.3 M last year. Offer him arbitration and he gets the same salary anyway.
</div>
But for one year instead of two. Eyre and Howry both worked out fine for a season and then sucked the second season. It's a gamble with these middle relievers. Why lock yourself in to two years?
</div>
But, if he performs well like we hope he does, that 2nd year could actually come as a discount.
</div>

That's certainly our hope...now.
</div>
Shouldn't that be your hope for every Cub?

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - kbwsb - 11-19-2009

Yes!

BTW, what do you guys think about getting Dan Uggla to fill our chasm at 2b?

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - Coldneck - 11-19-2009

We need to get better defensively up the middle and with Uggla we'd get much worse. Uggla plays defense at 2B as good as Soriano would and they are very similar hitters. Just move Soriano to 2B if you are seriously considering bring Uggla here. I hate the idea.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - kbwsb - 11-19-2009

Looks like this fucking stupid deal is going to go through.
Fuck yeah! Jim is overpaying for middle relief again!

Here's what a sane person wrote about the impending deal:
QUOTE John Grabow Gets Paid
by Dave Cameron - November 19, 2009 -

According to Paul Sullivan, the Cubs will announce later today that they have re-signed John Grabow to a two-year contract. Previous reports have put the value of the deal at $7.5 million.

Once again, we’re witness to the power of ERA as a negotiating tool. Over the last two seasons, Grabow’s thrown nearly 150 innings and posted an ERA of 3.09, giving the impression that he’s a high quality LH reliever. Yet again, ERA misleads.

Grabow’s FIP the last two years? 4.37, thanks to an atrociously high walk total. The entirety of his low ERA over the last two years is driven by an 82 percent rate of stranding runners, which is just not sustainable. He’s succeeded by putting men on base and then wiggling out of jams, but that’s not the same thing as pitching well.

It would be one thing if Grabow had developed this knack for stranding runners by elevating his strikeout rate, but he’s not any different now than he has been for his entire career.
Instead, he’s just posted artificially low BABIPs the last two years, and by not giving up hits, he was able to keep the guys he walked on the bases. That’s not a recipe for success.

Grabow is a generic left-handed middle reliever, the kind of guy you’re fine having for the league minimum but that you don’t really want to pay any real money to. He’s eminently replaceable, but the Cubs have decided to commit real money to him over multiple years because he has a low ERA.

The Cubs have money, and $3.75 million isn’t going to drastically alter their budget, but this is just a waste of cash. Betting on reliever ERA is a great way to get burned, and given Grabow’s actual talent levels, the Cubs are unlikely to be very happy with how this deal turns out for them.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - Scarey - 11-19-2009

QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 04:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Nov 19 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Good.

I'm not sure what there is to like here. Grabow is a mediocre at best reliever.
</div>
I like the signing. <b>Grabow is better than any LHP pitcher the Cubs have or have had in the BP in a long time. </b> Next year, we don't have to worry about who a LHP outta the pen will be, he's there for sure. I happy with the signing, there's nothing wrong with it.
</div>
So was Scott Eyre. And Mike Remlinger.
</div>
Maybe we should go with Cotts then. Or maybe we should forget about having a LHP in the pen all together. And for everyone saying we should have just offered him arbitration, he made $2.3 M last year. Offer him arbitration and he gets the same salary anyway.
</div>
But for one year instead of two. Eyre and Howry both worked out fine for a season and then sucked the second season. It's a gamble with these middle relievers. Why lock yourself in to two years?
</div>
But, if he performs well like we hope he does, that 2nd year could actually come as a discount.
</div>

I think you're letting Grabow's ERA deceive you. With the amount of batters he walks and his lack of stuff, he's a ticking time bomb.

I read that article that KB posted earlier. Make sure to read it, it's very telling of the quality of pitcher Grabow is. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if he's the third best lefty out of the pen next year.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - kbwsb - 11-19-2009

Jim Hendry never met a middle-of-the-road, mediocre, easily-replaceable MLB veteran that he didn't want to give 3 or 4 million to.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - jstraw - 11-19-2009

QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 04:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Nov 19 2009, 03:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 02:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Nov 19 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Nov 19 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ruby23 @ Nov 19 2009, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Good.

I'm not sure what there is to like here. Grabow is a mediocre at best reliever.
</div>
I like the signing. <b>Grabow is better than any LHP pitcher the Cubs have or have had in the BP in a long time. </b> Next year, we don't have to worry about who a LHP outta the pen will be, he's there for sure. I happy with the signing, there's nothing wrong with it.
</div>
So was Scott Eyre. And Mike Remlinger.
</div>
Maybe we should go with Cotts then. Or maybe we should forget about having a LHP in the pen all together. And for everyone saying we should have just offered him arbitration, he made $2.3 M last year. Offer him arbitration and he gets the same salary anyway.
</div>
But for one year instead of two. Eyre and Howry both worked out fine for a season and then sucked the second season. It's a gamble with these middle relievers. Why lock yourself in to two years?
</div>
But, if he performs well like we hope he does, that 2nd year could actually come as a discount.
</div>

That's certainly our hope...now.
</div>
Shouldn't that be your hope for every Cub?
</div>

My point was that I'd have hoped we'd signed him for one year but if we've got him for two...yes of course I hope it pays off.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - kbwsb - 11-20-2009

Yep, to compound the questionable nature of the Grabow signing, this just <i>happens</i> to be an off-season where relief pitchers are flooding the market (according to ESPN):

QUOTE "Closing the market"
Thursday, November 19, 2009
<b>If there's an area of depth in this winter's free agent market, it's in relievers</b>, including relievers who have either closer experience or closer stuff. Mike Gonzalez (No. 17), Rafael Soriano (No. 20), Billy Wagner (No. 24), Ryota Igarashi (No. 26), Rafael Betancourt (No. 34), Jose Valverde (No. 37), Fernando Rodney (No. 43), and Brandon Lyon (No. 47) all made my top 50 free agents (appearing on the site at 12:01 a.m. on Friday), while the injured ex-closer J.J. Putz is also available.

That market is made deeper by the availability of several comparable arms in trade, including Cleveland's Kerry Wood (one year plus a vesting option remaining on his contract), Cincinnati's Francisco Cordero (two years and $25 million remaining -- thanks, Wayne!) and perhaps San Diego's Heath Bell (two years of arbitration remaining).

<b>The sudden surfeit of relievers on the market is in part an accident of timing, but it may also reflect changing attitudes toward closers and relievers in general as more teams recognize the volatility of reliever performance. Teams have handed out some of their worst long-term contracts to relievers in recent years:</b>

B.J. Ryan, Danys Baez and Kyle Farnsworth all received deals of three-plus years and were complete disasters.
Cordero hasn't been terrible, but he is overpaid to the point that the Reds may be unable to move him without paying part of his remaining salary.
Billy Wagner gave the Mets two-and-a-half good years out of four, and his replacement, Francisco Rodriguez, had a shaky start to his three-year deal.
Brian Fuentes' debut year for the Angels made K-Rod look like a bargain.
Brad Lidge's three-year extension to keep him away from free agency now looks like a total loss.
Some teams are still willing to play in the deep end of the reliever pool, but many others have chosen to stick to short-term deals or avoid the deals altogether and try to build their bullpens from within:

Oakland has been playing games with closers for years, first creating and flipping veteran closers, then running a series of kids through the role, including this year's AL Rookie of the Year, Andrew Bailey.
Pittsburgh has said it views relievers as risky commodities and will build its 'pen on the cheap.
The Red Sox don't currently have any reliever under contract beyond 2010, nor do the Rangers.
The Padres don't either, although they have only two players total who are currently signed to multiyear deals.
The Rays have just one reliever on a multiyear deal, Dan Wheeler.
The Twins have just Joe Nathan, the best closer in the game, under a long-term deal, although the three-year deal they gave Jesse Crain, who went down with a torn labrum and a torn rotator cuff three months after signing it, just expired.
We already saw some signs of this change in the way teams approach relievers last winter, when K-Rod got three years and Fuentes and Wood each got two plus some sort of option, this only two years after the Blue Jays gave Ryan his five-year boondoggle and 12 months after the Reds gave Cordero four years. With a glut of closers and potential closers on the market and only a handful of teams looking externally or internally for pitchers to fill that role -- Houston, Atlanta, Detroit, Baltimore and not many others -- it might be a good year for teams hoping to nab a power arm at a middle-relief price.

• Speaking of closers,<b> Carlos Marmol says the Cubs have told him he's their closer in 2010</b>, according to Spanish-language daily El Dia.
 Marmol would also like the Cubs to sign Pedro Martinez.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - Coach - 11-20-2009

I would love to get one of the Braves RPs, Gonzalez/Soriano

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - Coldneck - 11-20-2009

QUOTE (Coach @ Nov 20 2009, 07:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I would love to get one of the Braves RPs, Gonzalez/Soriano
We just signed Grabow so we can't afford that now.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - Coach - 11-20-2009

QUOTE (Coldneck @ Nov 20 2009, 09:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coach @ Nov 20 2009, 07:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I would love to get one of the Braves RPs, Gonzalez/Soriano
We just signed Grabow so we can't afford that now.
</div>
But, he got him for TWO years
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/brickwall.gif[/img]

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - The Dude - 11-20-2009

How can Hendry say this with a straight face on the same day he gave Grabow $3.5M+ per year?

QUOTE General manager Jim Hendry conceded Thursday that money was a factor in the decision to trade veteran reliever Aaron Heilman to the Diamondbacks for a pair of minor-league prospects. Heilman stood to earn around $2 million in arbitration this offseason, and probably would have been nontendered next month because of his salary and the belief that relatively inexpensive relievers Angel Guzman and Esmailin Caridad can handle the right-handed setup roles.

Cubs and Grabow discussing multi-year deal - rok - 11-20-2009

QUOTE (The Dude @ Nov 20 2009, 09:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>How can Hendry say this with a straight face on the same day he gave Grabow $3.5M+ per year?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE General manager Jim Hendry conceded Thursday that money was a factor in the decision to trade veteran reliever Aaron Heilman to the Diamondbacks for a pair of minor-league prospects. Heilman stood to earn around $2 million in arbitration this offseason, and probably would have been nontendered next month because of his salary and the belief that relatively inexpensive relievers Angel Guzman and Esmailin Caridad can handle the right-handed setup roles.
</div>
We cleared payroll space for Grabow by dumping Heilman. That's the way I interpret it.