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Farm System - Coldneck - 08-20-2013
Quote:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Coldneck" data-cid="208649" data-time="1377018007">
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jstraw" data-cid="208648" data-time="1377017674">
<div>
I still hate the DH.
Ok. Why? And do you see value in both leagues having the same rule?
</div>
</blockquote>
I like managers having to make a decision about leaving in a pitcher that's throwing well, in favor of offense. I like that that can be a decision with consequences. I don't have a hard on for more offense in baseball just for the sake of higher game scores. I like baseball to be interesting with difficult choices for managers. I'd rather have the right rule in one (my) league than the wrong rule in both leagues. To me, the only challenge is how to work interleague play and in the end, that will mean the NL gets the DH...I'm resigned to that. I don't have top like it. I also hate interleague play...probably more than I hate the DH.
</div>
</blockquote>
You must despise Bud Selig.
Farm System - rok - 08-20-2013
I get that, but the above numbers are strictly for full-time DH's. Wouldn't you expect that only the elite bats would end up in those roles? The past few season averages look to be barely league average numbers to me. And you are definitely seeing less use of full-time DH's. I discarded the spreadsheet, but the number of pure DH's declined from close to 20 in 2005 down to 7 or 8 in 2013. Front offices value roster flexibility more in the post-steroid era.
Farm System - jstraw - 08-20-2013
Quote:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jstraw" data-cid="208661" data-time="1377026127">
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Coldneck" data-cid="208649" data-time="1377018007">
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jstraw" data-cid="208648" data-time="1377017674">
<div>
I still hate the DH.
Ok. Why? And do you see value in both leagues having the same rule?
</div>
</blockquote>
I like managers having to make a decision about leaving in a pitcher that's throwing well, in favor of offense. I like that that can be a decision with consequences. I don't have a hard on for more offense in baseball just for the sake of higher game scores. I like baseball to be interesting with difficult choices for managers. I'd rather have the right rule in one (my) league than the wrong rule in both leagues. To me, the only challenge is how to work interleague play and in the end, that will mean the NL gets the DH...I'm resigned to that. I don't have top like it. I also hate interleague play...probably more than I hate the DH.
</div>
</blockquote>
You must despise Bud Selig.
</div>
</blockquote>
Like cancer.
Farm System - Kid - 08-20-2013
Solving for the sample size issue, it turns out that the current model largely balances out in the World Series. Since they went to deciding the DH rule based on the site of each game in 1986, meaning where there have been games in each World Series played with and without a DH, there have been 70 games played with a DH and 72 games played without a DH.
In the 70 games played with a DH, the AL teams are hitting .259 (597-2,301), while the NL teams are hitting .239 (575-2,401).
In the 72 games played without a DH, the AL teams are hitting .242 (607-2,401), while the NL teams are hitting .252 (603-2,392).
Thus, the NL is hitting 13 points lower with the DH than without. The AL is hitting 17 points lower without the DH than with.
Farm System - jstraw - 08-20-2013
I'm surprised that the penalty for AL pitchers taking ABs v. NL pitchers not taking ABs isn't more stark. Yeah, I'm surprised that the NL is worse with the DH than without but I'm more surprised that the AL isn't *much* worse than that without the DH.
Farm System - vitaminB - 08-20-2013
It would be intersting to see how many more errors at 1B there are for the AL without the DH in the WS.
Farm System - jstraw - 08-21-2013
Quote:It would be intersting to see how many more errors at 1B there are for the AL without the DH in the WS.I'm missing something. Why would that be interesting?
Farm System - Coldneck - 08-21-2013
Quote:I'm missing something. Why would that be interesting?
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="vitaminB" data-cid="208690" data-time="1377057591">
<div>
It would be intersting to see how many more errors at 1B there are for the AL without the DH in the WS.
</div>
</blockquote>
He saying that good hitting DH's will sub in at 1B when the pitcher hits. Example: Big Papi did this in the World Series during games at the NL park.
Farm System - jstraw - 08-21-2013
Ah. Yes. That would be interesting.
Farm System - Kid - 08-21-2013
Since they went to the current model of having the DH rule depending on where the game was played in 1986, the AL commits an average of 0.77 errors/game (54 errors in 70 games) in games played with the DH and 0.81 errors per game (58 errors in 72 games) in games played without the DH, or about 4% more errors.
However, there's an outlier in there. In the 2004 World Series, in the 2 games played in Boston, the Red Sox committed 8 errors, but they did not commit any errors in the 2 games in St. Louis. If you take 2004 out of the equation, the AL has committed an average of 0.67 errors/game (46 errors in 68 games) in games played with the DH and 0.83 errors per game (58 errors in 70 games) in games played without the DH, or over 22% more errors.
Farm System - CubbieBlues - 08-21-2013
Great job finding those numbers. Though it shows a trend, it's a bit light on the number of games to draw a conclusion off of.
Farm System - Kid - 08-21-2013
Yes and no. You're talking nearly a full season's worth of games.
Farm System - CubbieBlues - 08-21-2013
You mean nearly a half seasons worth. 68 games = 42% of a season. 70 games = 43%.
Farm System - Kid - 08-21-2013
Quote:You mean nearly a half seasons worth. 68 games = 42% of a season. 70 games = 43%.
138 games (home + away, if you will)
Farm System - CubbieBlues - 08-21-2013
You can't add the two together because they are two totally different samples.