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+--- Thread: And another chapter over (/thread-6224.html)
And another chapter over - kbwsb - 10-04-2009
Trammell is a keen baseball mind. I'd have no problem with him as Lou's replacement.
BTW, I think Ace was just stating the "elephant in the room" thing about Ryno's managerial chances. Yes, Trammell is a good candidate, yes Lou seems happy with the gig and may go on indefinitely, yes there are always other interesting candidates from outside the organization.
But Ryno has publicly stated his desire to manage the big-league team. He's in the process of "paying his dues," by starting out in the low minors, earning the respect of the kids, and succeeding at the job. And it's tough to deny that he's probably the most popular person associated with the Cubs in the last quarter-century, and thus would bring a PR bonanza to the organization.
So I'd say that he's "in the discussion."
And another chapter over - Ace - 10-04-2009
It's as though Lou was reading our discussion: Sandberg as possible manager in 2011.
And another chapter over - jstraw - 10-04-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65309:date=Oct 4 2009, 07:29 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 4 2009, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Looks like Joshua will be the only member of the coaching staff not returning. Sandberg's name is getting some speculation as the next hitting coach.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If he fairs poorly as a hitting coach...he'll get fired and that's gonna really lower his stock...better a bench coach or third base coach...
And another chapter over - Kid - 10-04-2009
Everybody else will be back. Trammell will be the bench coach. Quade will be at 3rd base. The only spot open will be hitting coach.
I don't think Sandberg will be with the big league team though. Maybe he'll get promoted to Iowa, but I think he'll still be managing in the minors.
And another chapter over - jstraw - 10-04-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65315:date=Oct 4 2009, 08:12 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Oct 4 2009, 08:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Everybody else will be back. Trammell will be the bench coach. Quade will be at 3rd base. The only spot open will be hitting coach.
I don't think Sandberg will be with the big league team though. Maybe he'll get promoted to Iowa, but I think he'll still be managing in the minors.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't mean to suggest that I think he'll have Tram or Quade's job. I'm saying it's too risky to bring him to Chicago till one of those jobs is open.
And another chapter over - Coldneck - 10-05-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65310:date=Oct 4 2009, 08:33 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Oct 4 2009, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Trammell is a keen baseball mind. I'd have no problem with him as Lou's replacement.
BTW, I think Ace was just stating the "elephant in the room" thing about Ryno's managerial chances. Yes, Trammell is a good candidate, yes Lou seems happy with the gig and may go on indefinitely, yes there are always other interesting candidates from outside the organization.
But Ryno has publicly stated his desire to manage the big-league team. He's in the process of "paying his dues," by starting out in the low minors, earning the respect of the kids, and succeeding at the job. And it's tough to deny that he's probably the most popular person associated with the Cubs in the last quarter-century, and thus would bring a PR bonanza to the organization.
So I'd say that he's "in the discussion."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kabes, I'm not so sure Trammell or Sandberg would be a good choice as manager. Both are fundamentally sound baseball players from the 80s. Both played and believe in the philosophy of small ball. You know, the "dudes fast, dude hits first." line of thinking. I don't know, but I am very worried that neither grasps the advanced statistics or the philosophy that avoiding outs is the number 1 indicator of scoring runs. I also worry than Sandberg will taint his relationship with the Cubs if he bombs as manager.
And another chapter over - rok - 10-05-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65324:date=Oct 5 2009, 07:38 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Oct 5 2009, 07:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65310:date=Oct 4 2009, 08:33 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Oct 4 2009, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Trammell is a keen baseball mind. I'd have no problem with him as Lou's replacement.
BTW, I think Ace was just stating the "elephant in the room" thing about Ryno's managerial chances. Yes, Trammell is a good candidate, yes Lou seems happy with the gig and may go on indefinitely, yes there are always other interesting candidates from outside the organization.
But Ryno has publicly stated his desire to manage the big-league team. He's in the process of "paying his dues," by starting out in the low minors, earning the respect of the kids, and succeeding at the job. And it's tough to deny that he's probably the most popular person associated with the Cubs in the last quarter-century, and thus would bring a PR bonanza to the organization.
So I'd say that he's "in the discussion."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kabes, I'm not so sure Trammell or Sandberg would be a good choice as manager. Both are fundamentally sound baseball players from the 80s. Both played and believe in the philosophy of small ball. You know, the "dudes fast, dude hits first." line of thinking. I don't know, but I am very worried that neither grasps the advanced statistics or the philosophy that avoiding outs is the number 1 indicator of scoring runs. I also worry than Sandberg will taint his relationship with the Cubs if he bombs as manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no proof of any of those things, so I don't know how you can be that worried about playing too much small ball. Also, there were plenty of former Cubs who became coaches, were fired, etc and are still beloved by the fans. Billie Williams and Fergie didn't last as coaches, but no one even cares. I know that being manager is higher profile gig, but unless Ryno embarrasses himself, I think he's safe.
And another chapter over - Coldneck - 10-05-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65325:date=Oct 5 2009, 08:46 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Oct 5 2009, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65324:date=Oct 5 2009, 07:38 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Oct 5 2009, 07:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65310:date=Oct 4 2009, 08:33 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Oct 4 2009, 08:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Trammell is a keen baseball mind. I'd have no problem with him as Lou's replacement.
BTW, I think Ace was just stating the "elephant in the room" thing about Ryno's managerial chances. Yes, Trammell is a good candidate, yes Lou seems happy with the gig and may go on indefinitely, yes there are always other interesting candidates from outside the organization.
But Ryno has publicly stated his desire to manage the big-league team. He's in the process of "paying his dues," by starting out in the low minors, earning the respect of the kids, and succeeding at the job. And it's tough to deny that he's probably the most popular person associated with the Cubs in the last quarter-century, and thus would bring a PR bonanza to the organization.
So I'd say that he's "in the discussion."<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kabes, I'm not so sure Trammell or Sandberg would be a good choice as manager. Both are fundamentally sound baseball players from the 80s. Both played and believe in the philosophy of small ball. You know, the "dudes fast, dude hits first." line of thinking. I don't know, but I am very worried that neither grasps the advanced statistics or the philosophy that avoiding outs is the number 1 indicator of scoring runs. I also worry than Sandberg will taint his relationship with the Cubs if he bombs as manager.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's no proof of any of those things, so I don't know how you can be that worried about playing too much small ball. Also, there were plenty of former Cubs who became coaches, were fired, etc and are still beloved by the fans. Billie Williams and Fergie didn't last as coaches, but no one even cares. I know that being manager is higher profile gig, but unless Ryno embarrasses himself, I think he's safe.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are correct. There is no proof and I don't remember anything about Trammel's style when he managed the Tigers (other than his teams were terrible). I have heard Ryno talk a lot recently and based on his interview with Dan Patrick I get the idea that he's a traditionalist.
And another chapter over - kbwsb - 10-05-2009
Coldneck, if that's the case, I 100% agree with you. Fuck that with a stick.
There's even evidence that this is a trend; Joe Morgan, one of the few players alive who could be called a "peer" of Ryno, was the ultimate Moneyball player, yet is that ultimate anti-Moneyball curmudgeon now.
Another Dusty/Don Baylor type would kill me.
And another chapter over - Butcher - 10-05-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65401:date=Oct 5 2009, 02:26 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Oct 5 2009, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Coldneck, if that's the case, I 100% agree with you. Fuck that with a stick.
There's even evidence that this is a trend; Joe Morgan, one of the few players alive who could be called a "peer" of Ryno, was the ultimate Moneyball player, yet is that ultimate anti-Moneyball curmudgeon now.
Another Dusty/Don Baylor type would kill me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Morgan (aside from being an idiot and a douchebag) just has a problem with who he perceives as "eggheads" who think they understand baseball. Not to simplify it, but I'm sure he was a douchebag jock type growing up all the way through high school and college who looked down on the "nerds." Now the nerds seem to think they understand the game that he excelled at -- maybe they understand it better than him. How the fuck can they understand this game -- they've never suited up and played in their lives -- much less at the elite level that I played at (that last sentence was the inside of Morgan's brain).
And another chapter over - kbwsb - 10-05-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65406:date=Oct 5 2009, 02:33 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 5 2009, 02:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65401:date=Oct 5 2009, 02:26 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Oct 5 2009, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Coldneck, if that's the case, I 100% agree with you. Fuck that with a stick.
There's even evidence that this is a trend; Joe Morgan, one of the few players alive who could be called a "peer" of Ryno, was the ultimate Moneyball player, yet is that ultimate anti-Moneyball curmudgeon now.
Another Dusty/Don Baylor type would kill me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Morgan (aside from being an idiot and a douchebag) just has a problem with who he perceives as "eggheads" who think they understand baseball. Not to simplify it, but I'm sure he was a douchebag jock type growing up all the way through high school and college who looked down on the "nerds." Now the nerds seem to think they understand the game that he excelled at -- maybe they understand it better than him. How the fuck can they understand this game -- they've never suited up and played in their lives -- much less at the elite level that I played at (that last sentence was the inside of Morgan's brain).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you about Morgan.
But that is precisely why he'd be a poor manager. And if Ryno, (who also likely grew up as a jock-type, and then was lauded as a "superstar" throughout his adult life) thinks in the same linear manner, he will also be a poor MLB manager.
At least Lou is somewhat of a tactician.
I'm torn on the idea of Ryno as Cub skipper; on one hand, it'd sure be a feel-good story, for a franchise that needs one.
OTOH, has any superstar player EVER become a good manager? Ever? It seems like all the good ones were guys who had to scrap and claw to be any good (as players).
There's a sense of entitlement that comes with being a HOF player that doesn't seem to translate well to the everyday nitty-gritty of MLB managing.
And another chapter over - bz - 10-05-2009
<!--quoteo(post=65406:date=Oct 5 2009, 02:33 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Oct 5 2009, 02:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=65401:date=Oct 5 2009, 02:26 PM:name=KBwsb)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KBwsb @ Oct 5 2009, 02:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Coldneck, if that's the case, I 100% agree with you. Fuck that with a stick.
There's even evidence that this is a trend; Joe Morgan, one of the few players alive who could be called a "peer" of Ryno, was the ultimate Moneyball player, yet is that ultimate anti-Moneyball curmudgeon now.
Another Dusty/Don Baylor type would kill me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Morgan (aside from being an idiot and a douchebag) just has a problem with who he perceives as "eggheads" who think they understand baseball. Not to simplify it, but I'm sure he was a douchebag jock type growing up all the way through high school and college who looked down on the "nerds." Now the nerds seem to think they understand the game that he excelled at -- maybe they understand it better than him. How the fuck can they understand this game -- they've never suited up and played in their lives -- much less at the elite level that I played at (that last sentence was the inside of Morgan's brain).
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bingo.
And another chapter over - jstraw - 10-05-2009
Charles Martin Smith knew how to bust De Niro. Sean Connery didn't have a fucking clue.
Just sayin'.