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+--- Thread: Don't tell anyone (/thread-5314.html)
Don't tell anyone - Scarey - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94276:date=May 2 2010, 04:08 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94264:date=May 2 2010, 04:02 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94259:date=May 2 2010, 01:58 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94247:date=May 2 2010, 03:49 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->BT, Derek Jeter had 56 errors in 1993 for Greensboro.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly right. And the Yankees waited until 1995, after he made only 25 errors in 1994, before they installed him at short.
The fact that Castro had 40 errors as a 19 year old doesn't mean he is going to be a terrible defender. He might end up a gold glove SS one day. But it sure makes the argument that we should bring him up NOW to improve our defense seem sort of silly.
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I understand that, but so far he's turning the corner. Yes, small sample size...but:
Errors per game:
2009: 0.328 (39 in 119)
2010: 0.136 (3 in 22 / on pace for 16 in 119)
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AGAIN, he might eventually be fine as a shortstop. Maybe this year even. But one month of good defense does not negate a 40 error season (for the record, errors can be a shitty defensive metric, I just think 40 errors is too many to ignore). Maybe he has turned the corner. Maybe he will be dazzling from here on out. But the fact is, he was BAD last year, and the sample size this year is far too small to anoint him as a defensive upgrade, and still keep a straight face.
And if we aren't bringing him up for his glove, and our 2 MI's are actually doing pretty well with the bat, then why are we bringing him up, exactly?
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You need to realize though that scouts have praised his defense and that there's a reason why all fielders in the FLORIDA State League generally have a large error total. I'm in no rush to get Castro up to the big leagues either, but I wouldn't cite his defense as the reason not to bring him up.
Don't tell anyone - Fly - 05-02-2010
Why do all fielders in the Florida state league have tons of errors?
Don't tell anyone - Butcher - 05-02-2010
It sure has been fun to watch this offense the last few days. Now I'm just hoping Ramirez will break out of it pretty soon. We could truly be an offensive force.
We're really going to have to play well in our head-to-head matchups against the Cardinals this season.
Don't tell anyone - phan - 05-02-2010
this was a quick turnaround for the board...
Don't tell anyone - Kid - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94293:date=May 2 2010, 06:45 PM:name=phan)-->QUOTE (phan @ May 2 2010, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->this was a quick turnaround for the board...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the way it goes around here. Winning streaks = this is the year. Losing streaks = fire sale.
Don't tell anyone - funkster - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94295:date=May 2 2010, 06:01 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ May 2 2010, 06:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94293:date=May 2 2010, 06:45 PM:name=phan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (phan @ May 2 2010, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->this was a quick turnaround for the board...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's the way it goes around here. Winning streaks = this is the year. Losing streaks = fire sale.
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I think that's par for the course for most fans in general...myself included.
Don't tell anyone - BT - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94288:date=May 2 2010, 05:24 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ May 2 2010, 05:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94276:date=May 2 2010, 04:08 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 04:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94264:date=May 2 2010, 04:02 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94259:date=May 2 2010, 01:58 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94247:date=May 2 2010, 03:49 PM:name=Destined)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Destined @ May 2 2010, 03:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->BT, Derek Jeter had 56 errors in 1993 for Greensboro.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly right. And the Yankees waited until 1995, after he made only 25 errors in 1994, before they installed him at short.
The fact that Castro had 40 errors as a 19 year old doesn't mean he is going to be a terrible defender. He might end up a gold glove SS one day. But it sure makes the argument that we should bring him up NOW to improve our defense seem sort of silly.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I understand that, but so far he's turning the corner. Yes, small sample size...but:
Errors per game:
2009: 0.328 (39 in 119)
2010: 0.136 (3 in 22 / on pace for 16 in 119)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
AGAIN, he might eventually be fine as a shortstop. Maybe this year even. But one month of good defense does not negate a 40 error season (for the record, errors can be a shitty defensive metric, I just think 40 errors is too many to ignore). Maybe he has turned the corner. Maybe he will be dazzling from here on out. But the fact is, he was BAD last year, and the sample size this year is far too small to anoint him as a defensive upgrade, and still keep a straight face.
And if we aren't bringing him up for his glove, and our 2 MI's are actually doing pretty well with the bat, then why are we bringing him up, exactly?
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You need to realize though that scouts have praised his defense and that there's a reason why all fielders in the FLORIDA State League generally have a large error total. I'm in no rush to get Castro up to the big leagues either, but I wouldn't cite his defense as the reason not to bring him up.
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You guys are killing me.
I'm not saying don't bring him up because he's a bad fielder. I am saying that there is simply no evidence to suggest he is a defensive upgrade at this point. And since Theriot and Fontenot's offense seems fine now, it doesn't make sense to call up Castro at this point, regardless of how well he hits at AA. To rush him to the majors when it doesn't fix any apparent problems doesn't seem logical. IF he was an established defensive wizard, bring him up for defensive purposes. IF Fontenot and Theriot start hitting like shit, then bring him up for offensive purposes. Neither seems to be the case right now.
Don't tell anyone - kbwsb - 05-02-2010
I give credit to BT for thinking outside the box here. I hadn't thought of it that way, but he's probably right. I think.
Don't tell anyone - savant - 05-02-2010
Just a few quick observations.
Castro will not see the big leauges until September this year as long as we continue to be competitive, no one tanks(could be anyone of Theriot, Fontenot, or Baker), or gets injured.
As long as we are getting consistent quality starts with Z in the bullpen, I am more than happy to see him remain there and provide some stability to the weakest part of the team. I also like that we are saving some wear and tear on an arm that has been rode hard for the last decade.
Ramirez is all kinds of out of whack. He is way off of the plate compared to previous years, and in more of a crouch, and has opened his stance at least three ofr four more inches than he ever has while with the Cubs.
Don't tell anyone - jstraw - 05-02-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94327:date=May 2 2010, 10:21 PM:name=savant)-->QUOTE (savant @ May 2 2010, 10:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Castro will not see the big leauges until September this year as long as we continue to be competitive, no one tanks(could be anyone of Theriot, Fontenot, or Baker), or gets injured.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In other words, he'll be up before the break.
Don't tell anyone - Scarey - 05-03-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94325:date=May 2 2010, 08:34 PM:name=BT)-->QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm not saying don't bring him up because he's a bad fielder.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure why you quoted me and responded this way. I never said you stated Castro is a bad fielder.
My point is his defense, by several testimonials, is better than Theriot's while the error statistics say otherwise. I'm simply stating that the error statistics may be a poor choice in measuring stick for the fact that most players in the Florida State league have more errors because of the high precipitation volume and subsequent field conditions.
Don't tell anyone - bz - 05-03-2010
Aren't more "rangy" minor leaguers prone to errors because they are athletic enough to get to balls most wouldn't meaning they get to tough plays, but because they're tough they don't always field it cleanly once getting to the ball? I don't know if I'm talking out of my ass or if that is a wives tale, etc. I certainly makes sense to me.
That being said, there's no reason to rush Castro like BT said. Let him work out the nuances at the level he's at first.
Don't tell anyone - bz - 05-03-2010
BTW, I don't know how to write that last post grammatically.
Don't tell anyone - Fella - 05-03-2010
I have mentioned before, my Dad is friends with a big league scout. I talked to him a few weeks back, he never has inside info or anything but I asked him about Castro and specifically his defense and errors. He said at least half were throwing errors, said he could really get to the ball. In his opinion with a gold glove 1B like Lee and better infields he could easily reduce it to 20-25 a year right away, which is perfectly acceptable for a rangey SS with a big arm. Similar to a Furcal.
Not saying that is a sure thing but it is an expert opinion.
He also said he heard Lou wanted Castro up in April and was upset he didn't get him. Not sure how reliable that info is, but thats what he had heard.
Don't tell anyone - BT - 05-03-2010
<!--quoteo(post=94333:date=May 3 2010, 12:06 AM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ May 3 2010, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=94325:date=May 2 2010, 08:34 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ May 2 2010, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm not saying don't bring him up because he's a bad fielder.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure why you quoted me and responded this way. I never said you stated Castro is a bad fielder.
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Because you specifically said:
<!--quoteo-->QUOTE <!--quotec-->but I wouldn't cite his defense as the reason not to bring him up.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which I wasn't doing. I was saying it was premature to cite his defense as a reason TO bring him up.