+- Sons of Ivy (https://sonsofivy.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Chicago Cubs (https://sonsofivy.com/forum/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Friendly Confines (https://sonsofivy.com/forum/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: PEDs - Do you care anymore? (/thread-6477.html)
Pages:
1
2
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - Butcher - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=57864:date=Aug 14 2009, 10:39 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Aug 14 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Lee had gone from being a bum to a great player, then back to a bum again, I might be more suspicious. He's had a solid career, so I'm only mildly suspicious.
I'm actually very curious as to which pitchers juiced and took PEDs. It seems that they've gotten sort of a pass during these scandals (aside from Clemens and Grimsley), unlike most sluggers and position players who get hounded with questions all the time.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't Gagne get busted?
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - Butcher - 08-14-2009
By the way, I think the bump in Lee's power numbers is exactly what happens when you juice. It doesn't turn Neifi into Barry Bonds -- it just gives you a little extra boost. It makes a 25 homer a year guy into a 40 homer a year guy. I'm not saying his 2005 season is proof. But it looks pretty suspicious to me.
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - rok - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=57865:date=Aug 14 2009, 10:51 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 14 2009, 10:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=57864:date=Aug 14 2009, 10:39 AM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Aug 14 2009, 10:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If Lee had gone from being a bum to a great player, then back to a bum again, I might be more suspicious. He's had a solid career, so I'm only mildly suspicious.
I'm actually very curious as to which pitchers juiced and took PEDs. It seems that they've gotten sort of a pass during these scandals (aside from Clemens and Grimsley), unlike most sluggers and position players who get hounded with questions all the time.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Didn't Gagne get busted?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, for HGH. I forgot about him. I still think there were a ton of other pitchers on something, but mostly we focus on position players because of the beloved HR records.
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - Ronsantorocks - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=57823:date=Aug 14 2009, 09:01 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 14 2009, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->My opinion of PEDs has evolved quite a bit. At first I took the traditionalist view and thought that Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds were monsters for cheating the game and history of baseball. I've thought a lot about this issue over the years and my view point has changed dramatically. I believe baseball players did what nearly all people would do in a immensely competitive environment that offered little consequence (at the time), and actually encouraged the use of PEDs. If there was a drug that was easily attainable, and would increase your performance, and offered the opportunity to dramatically increase your salary, would you take it? I would have to answer YES, emphatically. How can I judge those baseball players, many of whom have little to fall back on, that take PEDs if I would do the same? I can't. They did what people have done since the beginning of time. They took advantage of the things that were available to them to help them succeed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since the all of this steroid jazz started, I have not once cared about who takes them. Roids don't necessarily make any one a "better" ballplayer, but only make them stronger. Which results in homeruns, and what does everybody like to see? Homeruns. I agree with Coldneck that they are just using whats available to them to succeed. But I also think that if a record is broken or set by an "enhanced" player that they should get a separate record book or something. In the case of Barry Bonds, he's hi the most Homeruns by using PEDs, and Hank Aaron was the best Homerun hitter without PEDs. Hope that makes sense
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - Ronsantorocks - 08-14-2009
<!--quoteo(post=57841:date=Aug 14 2009, 09:42 AM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Aug 14 2009, 09:42 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Plus, I want Pujols to be exposed for the fraud that he is. Seeing that douchebag go down in flames would give me a month-long boner.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hahahahaha!!! I know I'm not in control of this and have no power here whatsoever, but this sounds like "Quote of the Week" material
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - veryzer - 08-15-2009
fuck steroids. i used to care but i don't give a shit anymore.
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - jstraw - 08-15-2009
<!--quoteo(post=57869:date=Aug 14 2009, 11:03 AM:name=Ronsantorocks)-->QUOTE (Ronsantorocks @ Aug 14 2009, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=57823:date=Aug 14 2009, 09:01 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 14 2009, 09:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->My opinion of PEDs has evolved quite a bit. At first I took the traditionalist view and thought that Mark McGwire and Barry Bonds were monsters for cheating the game and history of baseball. I've thought a lot about this issue over the years and my view point has changed dramatically. I believe baseball players did what nearly all people would do in a immensely competitive environment that offered little consequence (at the time), and actually encouraged the use of PEDs. If there was a drug that was easily attainable, and would increase your performance, and offered the opportunity to dramatically increase your salary, would you take it? I would have to answer YES, emphatically. How can I judge those baseball players, many of whom have little to fall back on, that take PEDs if I would do the same? I can't. They did what people have done since the beginning of time. They took advantage of the things that were available to them to help them succeed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Since the all of this steroid jazz started, I have not once cared about who takes them. Roids don't necessarily make any one a "better" ballplayer, but only make them stronger. Which results in homeruns, and what does everybody like to see? Homeruns. I agree with Coldneck that they are just using whats available to them to succeed. But I also think that if a record is broken or set by an "enhanced" player that they should get a separate record book or something. In the case of Barry Bonds, he's hi the most Homeruns by using PEDs, and Hank Aaron was the best Homerun hitter without PEDs. Hope that makes sense
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The impact of steroid use, in terms of performance enhancement, extends beyond the power with which a batter can hit a ball. They can increase endurance and reduce recovery time from injuries. The significance of this cannot be overstated. They may shorten lives or the quality of life down the road but they can extend careers and turn marginal players into major leaguers.
There is more going on than home runs.
I'll confess to a certain double standard. I don't forgive any player their use but I see a distinct difference between someone like Bonds who was going to have a HOF career anyway but let his enormous ego and lack of values drive him to break the rules so that he could be the fucking king, even if it meant pissing on his dad and his godfather...and some guy hanging around AAA ball with a family support and for whom juicing could be the difference between going to the show and having security or raising his kids on Kraft Dinner. For that guy...when he gets to where he feels it's the way of the world and he can't participate of he stands on principles...he does the wrong thing. It's wrong...but I have sympathy.
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - 1060Ivy - 08-15-2009
Cheating has always been part of baseball. Players, coaches and managers have always looked for an edge either legally or illegally.
Some PEDs are cheating and others that are legal today may become illegal in the future.
I'm not for players taking substances that will likely shorten the lives or decrease the quality of their later lives but I don't know how to implement or enforce a system that stays ahead of those players who are OK with making these types of trade offs.
Unfortunately, PEDa are part of the game today and I don't expect them to go away anytime soon.
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - jstraw - 08-15-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58049:date=Aug 15 2009, 10:27 AM:name=1060Ivy)-->QUOTE (1060Ivy @ Aug 15 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Cheating has always been part of baseball. Players, coaches and managers have always looked for an edge either legally or illegally.
Some PEDs are cheating and others that are legal today may become illegal in the future.
I'm not for players taking substances that will likely shorten the lives or decrease the quality of their later lives but I don't know how to implement or enforce a system that stays ahead of those players who are OK with making these types of trade offs.
Unfortunately, PEDa are part of the game today and I don't expect them to go away anytime soon.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only way to stay ahead of the players is to drive home the point that what's not detectable today probably will be tomorrow and then making the consequences so dire that only the complete idiots will take the risks. The biggest problem still remains that the cost/benefit analysis still breaks down in favor of cheating for too many players.
PEDs - Do you care anymore? - dk123 - 08-15-2009
I never cared.