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+--- Thread: Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals (/thread-6450.html)
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Coldneck - 08-19-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58902:date=Aug 19 2009, 07:25 PM:name=Giff)-->QUOTE (Giff @ Aug 19 2009, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58901:date=Aug 19 2009, 06:22 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 19 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58892:date=Aug 19 2009, 05:21 PM:name=MW4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MW4 @ Aug 19 2009, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Its not that Smoltz will be the savior, but he is an upgrade over their number 5.
It just get me that the Cards seem to actually be doing SOMETHING to try and improve thier ballclub.
That kind of stuff inspire teams to do better when they know the team has their back.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not going to start for them.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] He's supposed to be starting Sunday.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fuck me running, the article I read earlier today said he's going to the pen. I've been wrong a lot recently.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Runnys - 08-19-2009
Just thought I would mention that the Cardinals haven't signed Holiday to anything. The traded for him in the last year of his contract.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - MW4 - 08-19-2009
Yeah, but they have a great record of signing guys like that.
They may even have the foundation laid.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Runnys - 08-19-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58950:date=Aug 19 2009, 10:03 PM:name=MW4)-->QUOTE (MW4 @ Aug 19 2009, 10:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Yeah, but they have a great record of signing guys like that.
They may even have the foundation laid.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really? They have a great track record of signing guys in the prime of their careers that are going to seek top dollar? I can't think of any off the top of my head, maybe you can give me some names that they have done this with recently. I honestly can't remember the Cards signing any big name FA's.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Coldneck - 08-20-2009
Chirs Carpenter to a below market deal is one. Scott Rolen back when he was good is another.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Runnys - 08-20-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58991:date=Aug 20 2009, 07:13 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 20 2009, 07:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Chirs Carpenter to a below market deal is one. Scott Rolen back when he was good is another.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Were they FA's at the time though? I am pretty sure Rolen was, but that was back in what...2001? Or were those contracts that were signed in the middle of another contract? I find it hard to believe that Holliday won't test the FA market and go for top dollar.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Runnys - 08-20-2009
MW said the Cards have a great record of signing guys like Holliday. Holiday does not have an injury history and is in the prime of his career. Carpenter hardly fits as someone like Holliday, Carpenters was awful before signing with the Cards and was coming off major arm surgery. The Cards just got fucking lucky. As far as Rolen, he is close to Holliday, but he still never hit the FA market. Sure, it is possible that the Cards can sign Holliday before the year is over, but I don't see it happening and if he hits the FA market he is going to get top dollar and IIRC the Cards do not pay top dollar for FA's.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Butcher - 08-20-2009
Holliday is a Boras client, correct?
No chance he doesn't test the FA market.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Coldneck - 08-20-2009
<!--quoteo(post=59053:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM:name=Runnys)-->QUOTE (Runnys @ Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->MW said the Cards have a great record of signing guys like Holliday. Holiday does not have an injury history and is in the prime of his career. Carpenter hardly fits as someone like Holliday, Carpenters was awful before signing with the Cards and was coming off major arm surgery. The Cards just got fucking lucky. As far as Rolen, he is close to Holliday, but he still never hit the FA market. Sure, it is possible that the Cards can sign Holliday before the year is over, but I don't see it happening and if he hits the FA market he is going to get top dollar and IIRC the Cards do not pay top dollar for FA's.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Runnys, you're wrong. Carpenter signed a 5 year deal with the Cards in 2007 after pitching amazingly for them in the 3 previous seasons.
2004: 15-5, 3.46 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 123 ERA+
2005: 21-5, 2.83 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 149 ERA+
2006: 15-8, 3.09 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, 144 ERA+
Holliday's situation is very similar other than the fact that he doesn't have a 3 year history with the team. I do think he'll be paid handsomely next season. The Cards can afford him too based on their salary commitments for 2010. Whether or not they choose to spend their money on him is another question.
And regarding Rolen, he was in the prime of his career when he was traded from the Phillies in the middle of 2002, in part because he wasn't going to resign with Philly. St. Louis resigned Rolen to an 8 yr/ 90 M contract after that season.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Baron - 08-20-2009
<!--quoteo(post=59063:date=Aug 20 2009, 12:35 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 20 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59053:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->MW said the Cards have a great record of signing guys like Holliday. Holiday does not have an injury history and is in the prime of his career. Carpenter hardly fits as someone like Holliday, Carpenters was awful before signing with the Cards and was coming off major arm surgery. The Cards just got fucking lucky. As far as Rolen, he is close to Holliday, but he still never hit the FA market. Sure, it is possible that the Cards can sign Holliday before the year is over, but I don't see it happening and if he hits the FA market he is going to get top dollar and IIRC the Cards do not pay top dollar for FA's.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Runnys, you're wrong. Carpenter signed a 5 year deal with the Cards in 2007 after pitching amazingly for them in the 3 previous seasons.
2004: 15-5, 3.46 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 123 ERA+
2005: 21-5, 2.83 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 149 ERA+
2006: 15-8, 3.09 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, 144 ERA+
Holliday's situation is very similar other than the fact that he doesn't have a 3 year history with the team. I do think he'll be paid handsomely next season. The Cards can afford him too based on their salary commitments for 2010. Whether or not they choose to spend there money on him is another questions.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cardinals resurrected his career by signing him when he had a torn labrum and paying him to rehab. How is that similar to Holliday?
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Coldneck - 08-20-2009
<!--quoteo(post=59065:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:39 PM:name=Baron)-->QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 20 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59063:date=Aug 20 2009, 12:35 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 20 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59053:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->MW said the Cards have a great record of signing guys like Holliday. Holiday does not have an injury history and is in the prime of his career. Carpenter hardly fits as someone like Holliday, Carpenters was awful before signing with the Cards and was coming off major arm surgery. The Cards just got fucking lucky. As far as Rolen, he is close to Holliday, but he still never hit the FA market. Sure, it is possible that the Cards can sign Holliday before the year is over, but I don't see it happening and if he hits the FA market he is going to get top dollar and IIRC the Cards do not pay top dollar for FA's.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Runnys, you're wrong. Carpenter signed a 5 year deal with the Cards in 2007 after pitching amazingly for them in the 3 previous seasons.
2004: 15-5, 3.46 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 123 ERA+
2005: 21-5, 2.83 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 149 ERA+
2006: 15-8, 3.09 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, 144 ERA+
Holliday's situation is very similar other than the fact that he doesn't have a 3 year history with the team. I do think he'll be paid handsomely next season. The Cards can afford him too based on their salary commitments for 2010. Whether or not they choose to spend there money on him is another questions.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cardinals resurrected his career by signing him when he had a torn labrum and paying him to rehab. How is that similar to Holliday?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's all well and good, but has nothing to do with his 2007 signing, which is what I am comparing Holliday's situation to.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Baron - 08-20-2009
<!--quoteo(post=59067:date=Aug 20 2009, 12:41 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 20 2009, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59065:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:39 PM:name=Baron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 20 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59063:date=Aug 20 2009, 12:35 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 20 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59053:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->MW said the Cards have a great record of signing guys like Holliday. Holiday does not have an injury history and is in the prime of his career. Carpenter hardly fits as someone like Holliday, Carpenters was awful before signing with the Cards and was coming off major arm surgery. The Cards just got fucking lucky. As far as Rolen, he is close to Holliday, but he still never hit the FA market. Sure, it is possible that the Cards can sign Holliday before the year is over, but I don't see it happening and if he hits the FA market he is going to get top dollar and IIRC the Cards do not pay top dollar for FA's.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Runnys, you're wrong. Carpenter signed a 5 year deal with the Cards in 2007 after pitching amazingly for them in the 3 previous seasons.
2004: 15-5, 3.46 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 123 ERA+
2005: 21-5, 2.83 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 149 ERA+
2006: 15-8, 3.09 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, 144 ERA+
Holliday's situation is very similar other than the fact that he doesn't have a 3 year history with the team. I do think he'll be paid handsomely next season. The Cards can afford him too based on their salary commitments for 2010. Whether or not they choose to spend there money on him is another questions.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cardinals resurrected his career by signing him when he had a torn labrum and paying him to rehab. How is that similar to Holliday?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's all well and good, but has nothing to do with his 2007 signing, which is what I am comparing Holliday's situation to.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you are saying that the Cardinals resurrecting his career had no effect on him giving them a below market value contract? Also, Carpenter was with the Cards for 3 years, got to know the city, got comfortable, felt he owed the Cardinals... how is that similar to Holliday?
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - Coldneck - 08-20-2009
<!--quoteo(post=59077:date=Aug 20 2009, 02:16 PM:name=Baron)-->QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 20 2009, 02:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59067:date=Aug 20 2009, 12:41 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 20 2009, 12:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59065:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:39 PM:name=Baron)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Baron @ Aug 20 2009, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59063:date=Aug 20 2009, 12:35 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 20 2009, 12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=59053:date=Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM:name=Runnys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runnys @ Aug 20 2009, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->MW said the Cards have a great record of signing guys like Holliday. Holiday does not have an injury history and is in the prime of his career. Carpenter hardly fits as someone like Holliday, Carpenters was awful before signing with the Cards and was coming off major arm surgery. The Cards just got fucking lucky. As far as Rolen, he is close to Holliday, but he still never hit the FA market. Sure, it is possible that the Cards can sign Holliday before the year is over, but I don't see it happening and if he hits the FA market he is going to get top dollar and IIRC the Cards do not pay top dollar for FA's.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Runnys, you're wrong. Carpenter signed a 5 year deal with the Cards in 2007 after pitching amazingly for them in the 3 previous seasons.
2004: 15-5, 3.46 ERA, 1.14 WHIP, 123 ERA+
2005: 21-5, 2.83 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, 149 ERA+
2006: 15-8, 3.09 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, 144 ERA+
Holliday's situation is very similar other than the fact that he doesn't have a 3 year history with the team. I do think he'll be paid handsomely next season. The Cards can afford him too based on their salary commitments for 2010. Whether or not they choose to spend there money on him is another questions.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Cardinals resurrected his career by signing him when he had a torn labrum and paying him to rehab. How is that similar to Holliday?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's all well and good, but has nothing to do with his 2007 signing, which is what I am comparing Holliday's situation to.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you are saying that the Cardinals resurrecting his career had no effect on him giving them a below market value contract? Also, Carpenter was with the Cards for 3 years, got to know the city, got comfortable, felt he owed the Cardinals... how is that similar to Holliday?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
okay dipshit, i even qualified my comment that they are the same, except for the fact that Carp had the 3 year history. Scott Rolen's situation is identical. He was traded midseason in the year he became a FA. Carpenter's is similar in the fact that he's a stud in the prime of his career.
Is this so important that you have pick nits and get on my fucking nerves. Its a stupid pointless argument.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - PcB - 08-20-2009
Baron wins.
Smoltz - Leaning to Signing with Cardinals - bz - 08-20-2009
<!--quoteo(post=58910:date=Aug 19 2009, 07:00 PM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 19 2009, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58902:date=Aug 19 2009, 07:25 PM:name=Giff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Giff @ Aug 19 2009, 07:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58901:date=Aug 19 2009, 06:22 PM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Aug 19 2009, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=58892:date=Aug 19 2009, 05:21 PM:name=MW4)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MW4 @ Aug 19 2009, 05:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Its not that Smoltz will be the savior, but he is an upgrade over their number 5.
It just get me that the Cards seem to actually be doing SOMETHING to try and improve thier ballclub.
That kind of stuff inspire teams to do better when they know the team has their back.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's not going to start for them.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ruby.gif[/img] He's supposed to be starting Sunday.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fuck me running, the article I read earlier today said he's going to the pen. I've been wrong a lot recently.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sounds about right.