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+--- Thread: Leading off for the Cubs... (/thread-5801.html)
Leading off for the Cubs... - 1060Ivy - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77531:date=Jan 26 2010, 09:05 PM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jan 26 2010, 09:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->So now that the off-season is winding down, there is just one thing that isn't quite settled for me.
Who leads off?
I'm sure conventional wisdom will say Theriot and his .356 OBP as a leadoff hitter is sufficient. However there is just something about him that doesn't sit right with me as the #1 hitter.
Fukudome was in that role a lot last year and didn't do too shabby. We know he can take a walk and nearly a career .400 OBP in the 1-hole. Yet if a platoon is in his future, do we want to really slot him up top. Consistency is key for me.
The other option is if we bring in a 2B who can lead-off, but I'd say the chances of that are slim to none.
So what are your opinions on this matter? In my opinion the leadoff spot is the most integral in a lineup. Kenny Lofton (as you all know) what a HUGE difference maker for us in 2003. We need that sorely, and I don't think we had it in our last two trips to the playoffs.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As pointed out by others, the Cubs have one leadoff man for righties and one for lefties.
Overall, you should consider Fukudome is our leadoff man. His OBP as leadoff man in 130 ABs was 404 last year which would put him in the Top 15 of all MLB players.
The only issue is that Fukudome platoons against lefties so the Cubs have Theriot come in leading to a platoon leadoff man.
I don't know if that I am that concerned that Theriot is most likely going to lead off somewhere between 20 and 25% of games.
If you are against platooning, you could just have Fukudome stay in. The issue last year Fukudome's OBP vs lefties was over 100 points lower than against righties.
Otherwise, the Cubs have a damn good reason to platoon if their leadoff man is Fukudome.
Leading off for the Cubs... - BackyardLegend - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77611:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:05 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 27 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=77607:date=Jan 27 2010, 11:34 AM:name=stevestonescigar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stevestonescigar @ Jan 27 2010, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Schumaker has led off at times over the last couple of years but he has by no means been their fulltime lead off guy. They have rotated guys in that spot since Vina left.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly how I remembered it. Then again, LaRussa has also been batting the SP 8th during that time too, so they've had 2 "leadoff" hitters.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
122 games at the leadoff spot in 08 Link
121 games in leadoff spot in 09 Link
Leading off for the Cubs... - BackyardLegend - 01-27-2010
I guess I'm just an anti-platoonite
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hitler.gif[/img]
Leading off for the Cubs... - rok - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77630:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:38 PM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jan 27 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=77611:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:05 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jan 27 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=77607:date=Jan 27 2010, 11:34 AM:name=stevestonescigar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stevestonescigar @ Jan 27 2010, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Schumaker has led off at times over the last couple of years but he has by no means been their fulltime lead off guy. They have rotated guys in that spot since Vina left.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly how I remembered it. Then again, LaRussa has also been batting the SP 8th during that time too, so they've had 2 "leadoff" hitters.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
122 games at the leadoff spot in 08 Link
121 games in leadoff spot in 09 Link
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He is the predominant leadoff hitter, no doubt, but 120/162 games is about 74% of the season. It's still a platoon of some sort relatively speaking.
Leading off for the Cubs... - The Dude - 01-27-2010
It's amazing how perfect Orlando Hudson is for this team. We have no leadoff hitter and no good 2B.
Leading off for the Cubs... - cigar - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77639:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:49 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Jan 27 2010, 12:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=77630:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:38 PM:name=BackyardLegend)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jan 27 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=77611:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:05 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Jan 27 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=77607:date=Jan 27 2010, 11:34 AM:name=stevestonescigar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (stevestonescigar @ Jan 27 2010, 11:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Schumaker has led off at times over the last couple of years but he has by no means been their fulltime lead off guy. They have rotated guys in that spot since Vina left.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly how I remembered it. Then again, LaRussa has also been batting the SP 8th during that time too, so they've had 2 "leadoff" hitters.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
122 games at the leadoff spot in 08 Link
121 games in leadoff spot in 09 Link
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He is the predominant leadoff hitter, no doubt, but 120/162 games is about 74% of the season. It's still a platoon of some sort relatively speaking.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Schumaker
Exactly. That is pretty much the perfect example of a platoon. No platoon is a perfect 50/50 split.
Leading off for the Cubs... - VanSlawAndCottoCheese - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77633:date=Jan 27 2010, 01:39 PM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jan 27 2010, 01:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I guess I'm just an anti-platoonite
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hitler.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just saw your avatar. So, MaverickHenn, correct? Note I'm still using the avatar you whipped me up at <i>ITI</i>.
Leading off for the Cubs... - Giff - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77642:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:53 PM:name=The Dude)-->QUOTE (The Dude @ Jan 27 2010, 12:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's amazing how perfect Orlando Hudson is for this team. We have no leadoff hitter and no good 2B.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Orlando Hudson has led off a game 23 times in his entire career. Just sayin'.
Leading off for the Cubs... - kbwsb - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77633:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:39 PM:name=BackyardLegend)-->QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jan 27 2010, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I guess I'm just an anti-platoonite
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hitler.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was always like you...I figured if you have a platoon, it means both guys suck. Kind of like in football, if a team has a "quarterback controversy," it means neither is good.
However, it's been proven many times over that in MLB, that there is a definite and universal platoon advantage. Most lefties simply can't hit left-handed pitching <i>remotely</i> as well as they can hit righties. Conversely, the same goes, to a lesser extent, for Right-handed batters.
So platoons are good.
And, if we have to face a lefty pitcher, and Fuk has an OBP of .300 against lefties, and Theriot has an OBP of .400 against lefties, who do you want leading off?
Leading off for the Cubs... - jstraw - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77745:date=Jan 27 2010, 04:37 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Jan 27 2010, 04:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=77633:date=Jan 27 2010, 12:39 PM:name=BackyardLegend)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BackyardLegend @ Jan 27 2010, 12:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I guess I'm just an anti-platoonite
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hitler.gif[/img]<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was always like you...I figured if you have a platoon, it means both guys suck. Kind of like in football, if a team has a "quarterback controversy," it means neither is good.
However, it's been proven many times over that in MLB, that there is a definite and universal platoon advantage. Most lefties simply can't hit left-handed pitching <i>remotely</i> as well as they can hit righties. Conversely, the same goes, to a lesser extent, for Right-handed batters.
So platoons are good.
And, if we have to face a lefty pitcher, and Fuk has an OBP of .300 against lefties, and Theriot has an OBP of .400 against lefties, who do you want leading off?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ricky Henderson?
Leading off for the Cubs... - Clapp - 01-27-2010
I think Theriot will bat #1 all year, with Fukudome 2nd against righties, and Baker 2nd against lefties, with Nady going into his 7th spot.
Leading off for the Cubs... - Ace - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77775:date=Jan 27 2010, 07:31 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 27 2010, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Theriot will bat #1 all year, with Fukudome 2nd against righties, and Baker 2nd against lefties, with Nady going into his 7th spot.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're probably right. But who do you think it should be? Shouldn't it be Fukudome when he's in the lineup?
(especially early in the season when Fukudome can actually hit)
Leading off for the Cubs... - BackyardLegend - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77677:date=Jan 27 2010, 01:36 PM:name=VanSlawAndCottoCheese)-->QUOTE (VanSlawAndCottoCheese @ Jan 27 2010, 01:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just saw your avatar. So, MaverickHenn, correct? Note I'm still using the avatar you whipped me up at <i>ITI</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes sir it's me. I remember doing all those avatars during my short stint as the administrator at ITI. Such power.
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Leading off for the Cubs... - Clapp - 01-27-2010
<!--quoteo(post=77777:date=Jan 27 2010, 05:46 PM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 27 2010, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=77775:date=Jan 27 2010, 07:31 PM:name=Clapp)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clapp @ Jan 27 2010, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Theriot will bat #1 all year, with Fukudome 2nd against righties, and Baker 2nd against lefties, with Nady going into his 7th spot.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're probably right. But who do you think it should be? Shouldn't it be Fukudome when he's in the lineup?
(especially early in the season when Fukudome can actually hit)
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep... unless Theriot goes back to his '08 ways. But Theriot just seems like the "leadoff" type to Lou: Can(well Lou and him seem to think so) steal bases, scrappy, etc. It's just the old school thinking with this crap. Plus, I just don't see Lou switching the leadoff hitter all the time when it's a righty/lefty on the mound.
But yeah, we know that Fuk would most likely be better against righties in the #1 spot since he's going to take a lot of walks and see a lot of pitches.
Leading off for the Cubs... - Ace - 01-27-2010
Someone just needs to convince Lou to lay off the swing-hard-and-you-can-hit-home-runs approach to teaching Theriot.