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+--- Thread: Soriano (/thread-5444.html)
Soriano - jstraw - 04-21-2010
<!--quoteo(post=91950:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:34 PM:name=Gracie)-->QUOTE (Gracie @ Apr 21 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->As long as Soriano hits this well, I won't be too upset about his defense. Still doesn't make him worth $19 million, though, and that's my main complaint about him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd be ok with the way he's been playing if he were making league minimum?
Roster spots are rarer than dollars.
Soriano - offcolorpoetry - 04-21-2010
<!--quoteo(post=91951:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:37 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 21 2010, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=91950:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:34 PM:name=Gracie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gracie @ Apr 21 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->As long as Soriano hits this well, I won't be too upset about his defense. Still doesn't make him worth $19 million, though, and that's my main complaint about him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd be ok with the way he's been playing if he were making league minimum?
Roster spots are rarer than dollars.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I'd be really happy with him if he was making league minimum. Then there would be no pressure to play him when he slumps for two or three months at the time.
Baseball teams do not exist in a vacuum - players have value, and though Soriano has hit well this season, he is nowhere near as valuable as his salary suggests he should be. And when you have several players who are underperforming relative to their salary, it hamstrings your ability to add payroll to bring in players who can fix your deficiencies.
Soriano - jstraw - 04-21-2010
<!--quoteo(post=91959:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:55 PM:name=Gracie)-->QUOTE (Gracie @ Apr 21 2010, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=91951:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:37 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 21 2010, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=91950:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:34 PM:name=Gracie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gracie @ Apr 21 2010, 09:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->As long as Soriano hits this well, I won't be too upset about his defense. Still doesn't make him worth $19 million, though, and that's my main complaint about him.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You'd be ok with the way he's been playing if he were making league minimum?
Roster spots are rarer than dollars.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, I'd be really happy with him if he was making league minimum. Then there would be no pressure to play him when he slumps for two or three months at the time.
Baseball teams do not exist in a vacuum - players have value, and though Soriano has hit well this season, he is nowhere near as valuable as his salary suggests he should be. And when you have several players who are underperforming relative to their salary, it hamstrings your ability to add payroll to bring in players who can fix your deficiencies.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point is...and I'm not sure we really disagree...that at some point, you don't bench a player that plays really badly, you vacate the roster spot through one of a variety of means and get someone different in there. The problem with Soriano's salary isn't that he's not giving us $19M worth of play, it's that it makes him upgradeable.
Yes, you can simply release a player making minimum and pay him off...I'm not going to be obtuse and pretend not to understand that his salary creates impediments to improving the roster. It does...but the problem is that it ties the teams hands with regard to the roster spot. There's no right price to pay in order to keep a shitty player on the roster.
Soriano - Clapp - 04-21-2010
<!--quoteo(post=91538:date=Apr 21 2010, 08:49 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 21 2010, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=91534:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:43 AM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 21 2010, 09:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=91515:date=Apr 21 2010, 08:44 AM:name=Andy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Andy @ Apr 21 2010, 08:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think it's funny that we have a 15 page thread on Soriano as though he's the sole issue with this team. There are no 15 page threads on Ramirez being horrible. There aren't threads on DLee or Fukudome. Theriot doesn't have a thread. The bullpen has a thread that's more about philosophy on creating a bullpen, than on how horrible they've been.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen.
I feel a rant coming on, but this team isn't worth the effort.
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<b>
The Ramirez thread hasn't started because I believe that we all believe that he will come out of this. He's always been a solid player and this funk is uncharacteristic.</b> I guarantee that another couple of weeks of this and he'll get his thread. Same with Lee.
Theriot, Fukudome, and the bullpen have been ripped, disected, and criticized ad nauseum. Just because there hasn't been threads about them, doesn't mean it isn't so.
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True, but the same goes for Soriano. He was playing at about 75% last year. When he was healthy, he was destroying the ball as always, as we saw last April. People fail to realize this though and just assume he's a washed up hitter. He shouldn't have even been playing much of the year, but he wanted to. The organization fucked up by not forcing him to go on the DL way earlier than September.
Soriano - mindbodyspirit - 04-21-2010
<b>True, but the same goes for Soriano. He was playing at about 75% last year. When he was healthy, he was destroying the ball as always, as we saw last April. People fail to realize this though and just assume he's a washed up hitter. He shouldn't have even been playing much of the year, but he wanted to. The organization fucked up by not forcing him to go on the DL way earlier than September.</b><i></i>
Soriano was clealy not near 100% much of last year, and it's on Lou and JH for not shutting him down sooner. Then again, last season I fail to see how 70-80 games of Sam Fuld in LF makes this team win any more games.
Unrelated to Soriano, this could be the most awesome play in a game of 2010... pretty incredible:
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_leagu...?urn=mlb,235668
Soriano - Clapp - 04-21-2010
Alf: .327, .978 OPS now. 13 for his last 28 with 7 extra base hits over that span.
Soriano - rok - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=91978:date=Apr 21 2010, 10:59 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 21 2010, 10:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Alf: .327, .978 OPS now. 13 for his last 28 with 7 extra base hits over that span.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's nice to see him producing in the #6 hole finally. Now if we can get Aramis going, maybe we can start putting up some runs more consistently, take pressure off of the pen, and return Z to the rotation where he belongs.
Soriano - bz - 04-22-2010
BOOOOOOOOO!!!! BOOOOOOOOO!!! BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Soriano - Clapp - 04-22-2010
Nice fucking headline on Cubs.com. [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/brickwall.gif[/img]
Cubs find unlikely heroes in Silva, Soriano
Silva only came in with an ERA under 1, and Soriano's been to more All-Star games than anybody on our team for chrissakes.
Soriano - veryzer - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=91984:date=Apr 21 2010, 11:25 PM:name=bz)-->QUOTE (bz @ Apr 21 2010, 11:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->BOOOOOOOOO!!!! BOOOOOOOOO!!! BOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Soriano deserved to be booed. Now he's doing the things he needs to do to stop the booing. Now he deserves to be cheered. That's life. That's the way it goes.
Soriano - Coldneck - 04-22-2010
Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.
Soriano - veryzer - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92015:date=Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM:name=Coldneck)-->QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And then he'll get booed. That's the way it is in sports, whether we like it or not. You get booed when you suck and cheered when you don't. It's always been that way and it always will, in every park and stadium in the world. Not just at Wrigley and not just now. Always and everywhere.
That's why I find it so amusing when we bitch about the booing. Where have you been the last 30 or forty years of your life? This isn't anything new.
When someone can't catch a routine fly ball and the fans boo, I think, "Wow, if he catches that, no one boos." You guys think, "Stupid fans, why are they booing?" To me, it's the players fault (most of the time) when the fans boo, not the fans fault.
Soriano - rok - 04-22-2010
Well, the fans <b>are</b> stupid, and this toxic atmosphere hasn't always been the case at Wrigley. That doesn't mean than I want the days of fans not watching the game back either, but this is far worse than that. The fans boo for no reason these days. That is reflective of having no class and is typical of what sheeple do. If it were only Soriano getting booed that would be one thing, but it isn't.
Soriano - BT - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92019:date=Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM:name=veryzer)-->QUOTE (veryzer @ Apr 22 2010, 08:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92015:date=Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM:name=Coldneck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Coldneck @ Apr 22 2010, 07:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Soriano is insanely hot right now. That's great. In a month he'll be insanely cold - looking silly on breaking pitches. That's his M.O.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And then he'll get booed. That's the way it is in sports, whether we like it or not. You get booed when you suck and cheered when you don't. It's always been that way and it always will, in every park and stadium in the world. Not just at Wrigley and not just now. Always and everywhere.
That's why I find it so amusing when we bitch about the booing. Where have you been the last 30 or forty years of your life? This isn't anything new.
When someone can't catch a routine fly ball and the fans boo, I think, "Wow, if he catches that, no one boos." You guys think, "Stupid fans, why are they booing?" To me, it's the players fault (most of the time) when the fans boo, not the fans fault.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is all demonstrably false Tom. How often did you see Mark Grace get booed? Greg Maddux? Ryne Sandberg? Did they just never suck for the Cubs? I was at the first playoff game in 1989. Maddux thought the best pitch to throw Will Clark with the bases loaded was a thigh high fastball. Did the fans boo Maddux after that home run? Of course not.
People can boo players, I don't generally have a problem with that. But the idea that we should boo our own players mercilessly after any infraction, is bullshit.
Soriano - The Dude - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92028:date=Apr 22 2010, 08:34 AM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 22 2010, 08:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Well, the fans <b>are</b> stupid, and this toxic atmosphere hasn't always been the case at Wrigley. That doesn't mean than I want the days of fans not watching the game back either, but this is far worse than that. The fans boo for no reason these days. That is reflective of having no class and is typical of what sheeple do. If it were only Soriano getting booed that would be one thing, but it isn't.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want the fans from 2003 back, when good things were a pleasant surprise and bad things weren't the end of the world.