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+--- Thread: Z to the Pen (/thread-5384.html)
Z to the Pen - jstraw - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
Z to the Pen - Scarey - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92090:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92085:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:37 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92084:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:32 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92080:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM:name=BT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BT @ Apr 22 2010, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92073:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92072:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92070:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92068:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM:name=leonardsipes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (leonardsipes @ Apr 22 2010, 12:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->The rotation is not being downgraded.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it is. The rotation is being downgraded by keeping Silva and Gorz in it and removing Zambrano.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think Lenny meant it in so far THIS year, the rotation has pitched just fine and in terms of THIS year, the rotation is now being downgraded. He's right actually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right. So, despite years of evidence to the contrary, Silva and Gorz will continue to pitch like Walter Johnson and Z will continue to pitch like Jason Marquis. I get it now.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right, because Silva has sucked so badly his entire career that the Mariners decided to give him 48 million dollars.
Have you even looked at his career? He's had 2 legitimately awful years. And 5 where he was anywhere from adequate to pretty good.
Plus, I like the ramifications of your idea. "Hey Silva, I know you are pitching better than anyone else on the team right now, and I know you give us a chance to win every time you go out, but we are all pretty sure you are going to suck at some point, so just to be sure, we will yank you from the rotation".
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I like the ramifications of your idea even more. "Hey Z, I know you're a 3-time All-Star and your three 'worst' seasons are better than Carlos Silva's three 'best' seasons, but because you've had a couple of bad starts in April and Silva has had a couple of good starts in April, we're going to yank you from the rotation and leave Silva where he is."
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Temporarily putting the guy who is doing the worst of our 5 starters at this moment in the pen seems at least defensible. Putting the guy who is doing the best of our 5 starters in the pen, because he was really bad 2 years ago, seems like a bad idea. Especially when you take into account the fact that if he becomes Silva 2008, he can be moved to the pen then. I'm not saying he won't get worse, maybe much worse, but taking your BEST starter out of the rotation, while he is hot, because you assume he will get bad, doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I'm saying is this: EVERY time Z takes the mound instead of Carlos Silva, there's a better chance we get a quality start and our odds of winning the game are better.
If you want to try and ride Silva's hot hand a little longer, then fine -- move Gorz into the 'pen. I don't give a shit that he's a lefty and we already have "too many lefties" in our pen. Moving Z into the bullpen makes zero sense and is indefensible.
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Well I guess there's only one thing to do then...
Kill Lou Piniella.
Z to the Pen - ruby23 - 04-22-2010
Just so we have this straight, when the Tribune sold the Cubs, the new management decided to keep BT on the staff. That's pretty much all I've learned from this thread.
Z to the Pen - dk123 - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Precisely....BT cracks me up, but I would hate to be his wife or gay lover in an argument with him.
Z to the Pen - Scarey - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)-->QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
Z to the Pen - dk123 - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92097:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it takes him a while to settle in usually?
Z to the Pen - Butcher - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92097:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because his best pitch is his sinker and it takes many sinkerballers (including Z) an inning or two to get into a groove?
Z to the Pen - Scarey - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92098:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=dk123)-->QUOTE (dk123 @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92097:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because it takes him a while to settle in usually?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
[img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif[/img]
His best two innings statistically over his career have been his first and second.
Z to the Pen - rok - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92099:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Butcher)-->QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92097:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because his best pitch is his sinker and it takes many sinkerballers (including Z) an inning or two to get into a groove?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I also don't like the idea of Z coming in with inherited runners. He seems to lose it in games when things happen that are not of his doing, so this could be disastrous in many ways.
Z to the Pen - jeffy - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92097:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, many pitchers can adjust to it without any issues, but others can't because they're used to their starting routine. Then you have to consider the fact that Z's a headcase, and it takes a different mentality to come into a game out of the pen, so there's no guarantee he's going to handle it well. I also wonder if this will affect his cramping problems at all since he's coming off of his normal routine.
Z to the Pen - Scarey - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92101:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:51 PM:name=rok)-->QUOTE (rok @ Apr 22 2010, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92099:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92097:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because his best pitch is his sinker and it takes many sinkerballers (including Z) an inning or two to get into a groove?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And I also don't like the idea of Z coming in with inherited runners. He seems to lose it in games when things happen that are not of his doing, so this could be disastrous in many ways.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Opponents have a .708 OPS against Zambrano with any bases occupied compared to his .676 OPS overall. It's not that bad actually.
Z to the Pen - Scarey - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92103:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:55 PM:name=jeffy)-->QUOTE (jeffy @ Apr 22 2010, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92097:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, many pitchers can adjust to it without any issues, but others can't because they're used to their starting routine. Then you have to consider Z's a headcase too, and it takes a different mentality to come into a game out of the pen. I also wonder if this is affect his cramping problems at all since he's coming off of his normal routine.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe I'm being biased, but all of these seem like grasping at straws. I agree that some or all of these issues could come in to play, but isn't it likely that a good pitcher is going to be a good pitcher? And let's be honest, 90% of relief pitchers are relief pitchers because they weren't good enough to be starters. There's no special mentality that scouts look for and say "that guy has a great relief pitcher mentality".
Z to the Pen - Butcher - 04-22-2010
The issue of whether or not Z will be a good 8th inning guy is completely beside the point. It doesn't matter if he's lights out as a set-up guy or not. He's proven himself year after year to be a top-shelf starting pitcher. He's a guy you give 200 innings to -- not 60 innings. I don't know how anyone can disagree with this.
Z to the Pen - jeffy - 04-22-2010
<!--quoteo(post=92104:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:55 PM:name=Scarey)-->QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92101:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:51 PM:name=rok)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rok @ Apr 22 2010, 12:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92099:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Butcher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Butcher @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92097:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92091:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM:name=jstraw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jstraw @ Apr 22 2010, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=92086:date=Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM:name=Scarey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scarey @ Apr 22 2010, 12:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I never said that.
I'm confident that Z would pitch like he has the last 3 starts and the 1st start was an aberation. That has nothing to do with what Sipes said.
He said replacing Z's production with Lilly's is at worst an even trade off, at best an improvement. Silva and Gorzelanny's production have not been a detriment so far and will hopefully stay the same. <b>Meanwhile, Z will pitch out of the bullpen and should improve the relief corp.</b> So all around, the Cubs just got better. This all falls through if one of Gorzelanny or Silva start sucking though. Sipes just offered up an optimistic way of looking at it.
It's not the best percentage move, but I think Lou is going to try to ride out Gorzelanny and Silva's hot starts as long as he can. I don't agree with it, but I'm not going to jump out my office window because the 2010 sesason is ruined. At worst, one of those guys starts sucking and Zambrano will be reinserted into the rotation. I guess Lou could give them each 5 starts or shitastic pitching before yanking them, but I don't think that will be the case personally.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm worried he will absolutely suck out of the pen.
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That's always a possibility, but I don't understand why he would pitch well in the rotation and badly as a reliever.
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Because his best pitch is his sinker and it takes many sinkerballers (including Z) an inning or two to get into a groove?
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And I also don't like the idea of Z coming in with inherited runners. He seems to lose it in games when things happen that are not of his doing, so this could be disastrous in many ways.
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Opponents have a .708 OPS against Zambrano with any bases occupied compared to his .676 OPS overall. It's not that bad actually.
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Yes, but those are his numbers as a starter. Coming onto the mound fresh out of the pen with runners on can be different than having runners on after you're already settled in. We'll just have to see how he handles it.
Z to the Pen - Scarey - 04-22-2010
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I'll put money on the fact that Zambrano will pitch more than 100 innings this year.