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+--- Thread: Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 (/thread-7393.html)
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Fella - 04-10-2009
<!--quoteo(post=29443:date=Apr 10 2009, 06:50 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 10 2009, 06:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I think Theriot's dumbness has been overshadowed the last few years because he had the dumbfuckingest player in baseball backing him up in Cedeno. But while Theriot obviously has skills (though not as a defensive shortstop), he's baseball dumb.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, he has showed it too many times over the last couple years for me to think otherwise. He has been a heck of a hitter, but he is a dumbass on the bases and makes poor decisions in the field.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Clapp - 04-10-2009
Two things:
1. You can't throw a 3-2 curveball to Chris Duffy in the 9th inning with nobody on base up one run.
2. Theriot made the right decision, just his 2nd awful throw of the game. They weren't going to double up Braun on that. Theriot's momentum was going towards 3rd base and Braun was already a good ways down the line with good speed.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Fella - 04-10-2009
<!--quoteo(post=29445:date=Apr 10 2009, 07:04 PM:name=Clapp)-->QUOTE (Clapp @ Apr 10 2009, 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Two things:
1. You can't throw a 3-2 curveball to Chris Duffy in the 9th inning with nobody on base up one run.
2. Theriot made the right decision, just his 2nd awful throw of the game. They weren't going to double up Braun on that. Theriot's momentum was going towards 3rd base and Braun was already a good ways down the line with good speed.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, on that play it was his only decision, just a bad throw like you said. In general I agree with Kid though he makes bad decisions in the field too often.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Kid - 04-10-2009
I don't disagree that it would have been a hard play to make, but the problem was he hesitated. Since his initial instinct was to go for 2, he should have gone for it. They might not have gotten the DP, but that happens. He hesitated in order to see how Braun was progressing, and then threw home from double play depth. He had no chance. If he'd have gone for 2 without thinking about it (which is what he's supposed to do), I think they at least have a chance to get Braun.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Fella - 04-10-2009
Overall we just made too many stupid plays today. Lou over-managed like crazy and Soriano and Theriot played horrible defense. Gregg shouldn't have been in the situation he was in, in the first place.
Seems like Harden was the guy last year who most often got screwed over and this year starts the same way.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - rok - 04-10-2009
Lou lost this game. He mismanaged the pen from top to bottom.
Gregg is probably gonna drive us crazy all season.
Theriot is not a everyday ML SS. He can hit .300, get on base at an acceptable rate, but other than that, does nothing well. He's a dumb ballplayer.
And the worst thing about this game is that Braun is the hero for driving in the winning run, when he should have just been the goat who grounded into an inning ending DP like the bitch that he is.
Anyway, I'm done with this loss, but there will be many more where that came from.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - kbwsb - 04-10-2009
I just watched highlights of the 9th.
Did anyone else think that the Richie Weeks double that went over Alf's head was catchable? I did.
Also, I don't understand why Theriot's play at the end was dumb. Is it because you think he should have gone for the double play?
I'm kind of the opinion that it would have been a slim chance.
It's true though that he shouldn't have hesitated; he should know before the ball is hit exactly what he's going to do...bottom of the 9th, score tied, Braun up, man on third...make your decision and stick with it.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Kid - 04-10-2009
It's not just that he should have gone for the DP. It's that he hesitated before deciding to go home. You can't be at DP depth, hesitate, and still try to get the runner at home. His instinct was to go for 2, he should have.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - kbwsb - 04-10-2009
<!--quoteo(post=29463:date=Apr 10 2009, 10:18 PM:name=Kid)-->QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 10 2009, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's not just that he should have gone for the DP. It's that he hesitated before deciding to go home. You can't be at DP depth, hesitate, and still try to get the runner at home. His instinct was to go for 2, he should have.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you.
Or else go home immediately. But pick one.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Butcher - 04-10-2009
<!--quoteo(post=29462:date=Apr 10 2009, 10:13 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 10 2009, 10:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I just watched highlights of the 9th.
Did anyone else think that the Richie Weeks double that went over Alf's head was catchable? I did.
Also, I don't understand why Theriot's play at the end was dumb. Is it because you think he should have gone for the double play?
I'm kind of the opinion that it would have been a slim chance.
It's true though that he shouldn't have hesitated; he should know before the ball is hit exactly what he's going to do...bottom of the 9th, score tied, Braun up, man on third...make your decision and stick with it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe a good defensive shortstop would've made that play -- whether it was a throw home or turning the DP. The problem was that Theriot couldn't decide what he wanted to do and the hesitation made it impossible to make either play.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Kid - 04-10-2009
<!--quoteo(post=29465:date=Apr 10 2009, 11:19 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 10 2009, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=29463:date=Apr 10 2009, 10:18 PM:name=Kid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid @ Apr 10 2009, 10:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->It's not just that he should have gone for the DP. It's that he hesitated before deciding to go home. You can't be at DP depth, hesitate, and still try to get the runner at home. His instinct was to go for 2, he should have.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you.
Or else go home immediately. But pick one.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, though I tend to think going for 2 was the better play there. It might have been tough, but even if he hadn't hesitated, he still had to get a good runner out at the plate from DP depth and, assuming he's successful, have Gregg get another batter out without letting the winning run score.
But I don't think there's a right answer between going home and going for 2. Hesitating was the problem.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - kbwsb - 04-10-2009
I'm starting to really wonder about Theriot as our SS. He hit really well last year, so it obscured the fact that he's a below average defender (for a SS).
But on most championship-caliber teams, your SS is the <i>smartest</i> guy on the field, not the dumbest. And Theriot may be giving back as many runs as he puts on the board.
He's not as fast as some would think, and he's not even a smart baserunner.
I don't mean to pile on; I've always kind of liked the guy. And we don't have anyone else who can play the position. But he's starting to bother me.
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - Butcher - 04-10-2009
<!--quoteo(post=29468:date=Apr 10 2009, 10:23 PM:name=KBwsb)-->QUOTE (KBwsb @ Apr 10 2009, 10:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->I'm starting to really wonder about Theriot as our SS. He hit really well last year, so it obscured the fact that he's a below average defender (for a SS).
But on most championship-caliber teams, your SS is the <i>smartest</i> guy on the field, not the dumbest. And Theriot may be giving back as many runs as he puts on the board.
He's not as fast as some would think, and he's not even a smart baserunner.
I don't mean to pile on; I've always kind of liked the guy. And we don't have anyone else who can play the position. But he's starting to bother me.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not to nitpick, but I think C is the most important defensive position on the field, followed by SS.
I think it goes, in order:
C - SS - 2B - CF - 3B - RF - LF - 1B
Up the middle (the top 4 defensive positions), we're pretty weak defensively (except for Soto).
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - ruby23 - 04-10-2009
Before the year's out, we're gonna have to swap out one of the OFers (Hoffpauir included) for an actual SS (whether it's to replace Theriot or supplement him).
Cubs @ Brewers 4-10-09 - kbwsb - 04-10-2009
<!--quoteo(post=29472:date=Apr 10 2009, 10:31 PM:name=ruby23)-->QUOTE (ruby23 @ Apr 10 2009, 10:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Before the year's out, we're gonna have to swap out one of the OFers (Hoffpauir included) for an actual SS (whether it's to replace Theriot or supplement him).<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
At this point, I wouldn't even mind getting a pure glove-man at Short.