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As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - Printable Version

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As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - veryzer - 01-06-2009

derosa out - miles in: on the surface this is a major downgrade BUT fontenot was good last year and miles isn't as bad as some say he is. the major problem is the loss of derosa's versatility and leadership. leadership is over rated, versatility is not. we took a step back, but maybe not as bad as we think.

marquis out - marshall in: at worst its a lateral move, but i think marshall is gonna be better than marquis and pitching out of the 5 hole should ease the pressure. minor upgrade.

wood out - gregg and vizcaino in: gregg is slightly less than wood but vizcaino is solid. wood versus gregg is a downgrade, but both versus wood is an upgrade.

bradley in - fuk on the bench: this is a major upgrade as long as bradley plays 2/3 a season. and it allows gathright and johnson to come off the bench. thats a pretty good bench.

so to recap:

in:

bradley
gregg
vizcaino
miles
gathright

out:
wood
derosa
marquis

outside of derosa, i don't think we had a bad offseason at all. at worst, i don't see us much different from last year. i still think theres more to come. give me peavy and its one of the best offseasons ever.

and if wood and derosa can stick it to the white sox 15 times this year, then more power to them.

what say you?

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - BT - 01-06-2009

I generally agree with you Tommy. I'd add that Wood-Gregg is a downgrade ONLY if Wood pitches the whole year. That's an assumption many are making, yet who find the idea of Bradley not being hurt as unimaginable.

I'm not saying that Wood will get hurt and Bradley won't, just that their injury histories are somewhat similar.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - sleepyhead - 01-06-2009

I pretty much agree with your assessment. One thing, Fuk, Johnson and Gath aren't all on the bench. I'm pretty sure they are set on a Fuk/Johnson platoon in CF, which I'm fine with and I think will work.

I'm still pretty confidant that Hendry is going to make a substantial trade still and that will make us better on paper than last year's team. We'll just have to see how the rest of the offseason goes, but I think we are already good enough to win the division again.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - Ace - 01-06-2009

Agreed on all counts, tom. But I think there is a little more to the equation.

Edmonds, who was admitted great, is out. Can Fuk replace his production against righties in center?

Also, we've add Harden for the whole year (in theory).

I think we're better on paper right now than this time last year, and I think we're going to get better.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - veryzer - 01-06-2009

<!--quoteo(post=9321:date=Jan 6 2009, 09:21 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 6 2009, 09:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Agreed on all counts, tom. But I think there is a little more to the equation.

Edmonds, who was admitted great, is out. Can Fuk replace his production against righties in center?

Also, we've add Harden for the whole year (in theory).

I think we're better on paper right now than this time last year, and I think we're going to get better.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


oops, i was gonna mention edmonds being out and i forgot.

heres the thing: was edmonds that great? he had some streaks where he was great but on the whole, how great was he? he seemed to hit a wall late in the season and a .256 avg. isn't great....unless you're adam dunn.

i really didn't expect much from edmonds this year had he stayed around. fortunately, unlike years past, management recognized that and made the right moves to replace him. had ed lynch been around, gary gaetti would still be playing third for us.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - ColoradoCub - 01-06-2009

Edmonds had some pretty clutch hits/HR's last season, and if there's anything this team needs, it's someone that can hit in the clutch.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - sleepyhead - 01-06-2009

<!--quoteo(post=9325:date=Jan 6 2009, 09:50 AM:name=ColoradoCub)-->QUOTE (ColoradoCub @ Jan 6 2009, 09:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->Edmonds had some pretty clutch hits/HR's last season, and if there's anything this team needs, it's someone that can hit in the clutch.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Aside from those couple big games, he was pretty awful down the stretch. At his best he was nowhere near as good as Fuk at his best. Fuk is also younger and had more external things working against him with his first year in the majors, new country, etc. I think he will be more productive, even with less HRs.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - payton - 01-06-2009

Are we better than last year? Let's look at it more analytically......

C Soto- will he put up the same numbers as last year? Possibly, but I could see a slight falloff personally.....

1B Lee- I think he is what he is at this point....A .300ish, 20 homer guy.

2B DeRosa/Fontenot vs. Fontenot/Miles I see Fontenot as a question mark as an everyday player and certainly don't see Miles outproducing either of DeRosa or Fontenot, so this is a downgrade for me.

SS Theriot- I think he'll put up about the same numbers myself

3B Ramirez- I could actually see him improving on last year's numbers.

LF Soriano- If he stays healthy, he's an upgrade by default over 2/3 of a season from him.

CF Edmonds/Johnson vs. Fukudome/Johnson I see this as a BIG downgrade myself. Our CF production last year was phenomenal and I definitely don't see Fuk doing what Edmonds did and I doubt Reed has as good a year as last either.

RF Fukudome vs. Bradley Obviously an upgrade, but we need 120 games out of Bradley for this to be the case.

Bench Ward/Johnson/Fontenot/Cedeno/Blanco vs. Hoffpauir/Miles/Bako/Johnson/Gathright

I would still like to see us add a power right handed bat for the bench, but I guess this is close to a wash.

SO, to me the lineup is downgraded in CF, upgraded in RF, probably about the same and I expect slightly worse seasons from Soto and 2B while Soriano and Aramis could pick up the slack some. Lineup basically is the same production but set up with better balance for the playoffs, especially if we add a righty power bat for the bench.

I like the lineup a tad more than last year.

Rotation

Z- I think he is what he is and at this point, I consider him an extremely solid 2. Sorry, but he's not what he was a few years ago.

Dempster- I think we'll see about a point higher ERA than last year.

Lilly- I see him as an upper 3 lower 4 ERA guy. We're lucky to have him as far as I'm concerned.

Hill/Lieber/Marshall vs. Harden- HUGE upgrade obviously, as long as we get 20 starts out of him. If he pitches a full season(and it's a contract year for him) he's an ace with Cy Young capability

Marquis vs. Marshall/Shark/Guzman- I see this as an upgrade too honestly. Not that Marquis was a bad 5th guy by any means, but the upside is there with any of these guys, it's just a matter of finding the right one.

The staff is in better shape than it was at this point last year for sure.

Bullpen

Long guys- Lieber and Gallagher vs. Guzman and Gaudin- Again this is a wash for me, possibly an upgrade even.

Middle relief- Wuertz and Howry vs. Vizcaino and Wuertz- No change here either.

Lefties- Cotts vs. Cotts- no change at all.

Set up guys- Marmol/Shark vs. Gregg/Shark This is the biggest downgrade we've got on the team as far as I'm concerned. We've been spoiled bigtime with Marmol in the setup role and I cringe assuming he's moving to closer. I think he's more valuable where he's been at. I think Gregg is an averagish back of the pen guy myself. Huge downgrade for me, I'd rather see him closing as sad as that sounds.....He's still a downgrade from Wood, but much less of one than from Marmol.

Closer- Wood vs. Marmol Is it an upgrade? Yeah, probably. Assuming Marmol doesn't get spooked by the 9th inning anyway. But, as I said, I'd rather have Gregg close. Unless we still will use Marmol for more than an inning when the situation calls for it.....

Bullpen has been downgraded some.


So, I think we're probably a little better off than we were last year, before we got Harden. I'm perfectly fine going into 2009 with this team, but I definitely see us adding a SP before then, but I see more of a 4-5 guy than an ace. I just don't see Peavy happening at this point and time. I want a righty power bat for the bench and I'd call it an offseason......I don't see anyone else from the Central making any moves that scare me, so that makes this offseason even more of a success.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - rok - 01-06-2009

Offense - About the same as last year, but slightly less versatile with DeRosa
Defense - About the same, maybe slightly better with more speed in the OF with Bradley, Gathright. Miles is only good at 2B so some versatility lost here.
Bench - More speed, more LH bats, maybe a slight improvement
SP - About the same, or slightly improved if Harden can stay healthy and Marquis/Shark match what Marquis did
Bullpen - Slightly weaker. Vizcaino is good in spurts, but overall pretty bad. Gregg is slightly worse than Wood, but that depends on health

I dunno, I guess with the league and especially the division getting weaker (this is a recurring theme) we're slightly better to about the same on paper.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - Ace - 01-06-2009

If you want a righty with pop for the bench, I think we already have him - Jake Fox.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - sleepyhead - 01-06-2009

<!--quoteo(post=9345:date=Jan 6 2009, 10:53 AM:name=Ace)-->QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 6 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If you want a righty with pop for the bench, I think we already have him - Jake Fox.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not really worried about a bench bat, but we better have one more big cog coming in the form of a trade or the DeRo deal will piss me off all year.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - rok - 01-06-2009

<!--quoteo(post=9349:date=Jan 6 2009, 11:01 AM:name=sleepyhead)-->QUOTE (sleepyhead @ Jan 6 2009, 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=9345:date=Jan 6 2009, 10:53 AM:name=Ace)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ace @ Jan 6 2009, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}><!--quotec-->If you want a righty with pop for the bench, I think we already have him - Jake Fox.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not really worried about a bench bat, but we better have one more big cog coming in the form of a trade or the DeRo deal will piss me off all year.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think you're alone in feeling that way. At the same time, I'm waiting for Hendry to give the old line about the team still having the flexibility to do another deal to improve the team during the season, and that we just have to wait and see how it plays out.

You know that the ownership change is going to be the #1 excuse for not going after Peavy. It makes sense to worry about payroll during this transition, but I'm just wondering why we could sign so many other long term contracts, yet not have the financial leeway to acquire Peavy.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - HemisFear - 01-06-2009

Offensively I like what we've done. Getting Bradley and his big, fat fucking on-base % is goign to be really sweet hitting in front of Rammy. I think we've gotten stronger on that side of the ball including the DeRo trade. I love the guy, but he DID boot a ball in game two that seriously cost us, which no one is bringing up around here by the by. That one play cost us that entire game.

Getting rid of Marquis is addition by subtraction. I am however very concerned about losing Woody and replacing him with Visciano. I don't know if this is a good move or not but it certainly doesn't "feel" like a good move.

Overall, I think we're still the odds on favorite to win the Central, but I don't know if this puts us ahead of teams like the Mets, Phillies, Boston or Yankees at this point.

Until we can win 'a' playoff game, let alone a series, I just don't fully believe in this team. I want to with every fiber in my being, but I just wonder if we've become too many chiefs and not enough indians.

As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - Clapp - 01-06-2009

Right now? We're worse.


As it stands, are we better now than we were last year? - CFOrfan - 01-06-2009

I think were worse because of the moves we made. I also think we are worse because some guys had terrific years and probably won't repeat. I think we are worse by a good margin. Maybe a whole 10 games.